ShaniaLookAlike- this is ours... let's discuss... [Archive]

Mutt-

07-21-2002, 8:11pm

Originally posted by SHANIANUTS!
Z - you send me PMs but Angie gets a thread, eh?:p

Well, what can I say? I'm extremely pro-Constitution and the people's rights, which are not really being upheld at all by the lower courts these days. And I sincerely have real concerns, grievances, and arguements to put before these legal system and enforcement types. So, at any time I get the chance to discuss this topic with one of these people, I will do it. What they call an imperfect system, I see as just their excuse for insurrection.

SHANIANUTS!

07-21-2002, 8:14pm

Originally posted by Mutt-

Well, what can I say? I'm extremely pro-Constitution and the people's rights, which are not really being upheld at all by the lower courts these days. And I sincerely have real concerns, grievances, and arguements to put before these legal system and enforcement types. So, at any time I get the chance to discuss this topic with one of these people, I will do it. What they call an imperfect system, I see as just their excuse for insurrection. :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

SHANIANUTS!

07-21-2002, 8:19pm

Z - She may be running the FBI or a similar organization in 20 years so she is probably a very good person to get to know and network with.

Mutt-

07-21-2002, 8:35pm

Originally posted by SHANIANUTS!
:shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

Why are you so shocked? And no, I don't see Angie as a insurrectionist, if that's what you think. But I do think alot of people within the system have been brainwashed into following a system which has become intolerant of the people's rights here. In fact, it seems like our government is more interested in preaching human rights to the rest of the world, than upholding them here in the US.

SHANIANUTS!

07-21-2002, 8:37pm

Angie is gonna be a tad surprised at your thread but I am sure she will keep it going and make you wonder why you started it!:p

Mutt-

07-21-2002, 8:38pm

Originally posted by SHANIANUTS!
Z - She may be running the FBI or a similar organization in 20 years so she is probably a very good person to get to know and network with.

That's all the more reason why it is extremely important for me to get my point thru to her then.

SHANIANUTS!

07-21-2002, 8:40pm

Originally posted by Mutt-

That's all the more reason why it is extremely important for me to get my point thru to her then. BTW what ticked you off so bad you have gotten on this crusade???:eek: :eek: :eek:

Mutt-

07-21-2002, 8:44pm

Originally posted by SHANIANUTS!
Angie is gonna be a tad surprised at your thread but I am sure she will keep it going and make you wonder why you started it!:p

She's heard enough of my argument to know I'm serious about this.

Marine

07-21-2002, 8:56pm

Hey Mutt; if you like discussing politics, you might like to checkout Freeconservatives.com, heh.

Mutt-

07-21-2002, 8:58pm

Originally posted by SHANIANUTS!
BTW what ticked you off so bad you have gotten on this crusade???:eek: :eek: :eek:

My life. Where I live. Being back into a corner and seeing so many other people being backed into the same corner. No way to succeed, no matter how hard you try. I live in an area that is considered to be a high economically disadvantaged area. High unemployment but the figures don't truly reflect the problem. There are no jobs. It's really a very long long story.

SHANIANUTS!

07-21-2002, 9:02pm

Originally posted by Mutt-

She's heard enough of my argument to know I'm serious about this. So have I.

SHANIANUTS!

07-21-2002, 9:04pm

Originally posted by Mutt-

My life. Where I live. Being back into a corner and seeing so many other people being backed into the same corner. No way to succeed, no matter how hard you try. I live in an area that is considered to be a high economically disadvantaged area. High unemployment but the figures don't truly reflect the problem. There are no jobs. It's really a very long long story. This thread is kind of unique in some respects - but does it belong here in this News/Sports forum?

Mutt-

07-21-2002, 9:18pm

Originally posted by SHANIANUTS!
This thread is kind of unique in some respects - but does it belong here in this News/Sports forum?

And I don't understand what you people are so afraid of. This is a current event. The same discussion in this thread was in covered in some small length in the thread about the singer who made the comments about immigrants learning English. Both topic deal with people's rights and that's the problem in this country. It's ok to talk about the rights of immigrants, but try talking about the rights of citizens and it's "ooh, we better not go there." But hey, whatever you say. Chickens!

SHANIANUTS!

07-22-2002, 8:16pm

I am glad you simmered down Z!:)

ShaniaLookAlike

07-22-2002, 8:41pm

Sorry Z, I'm just now finding this thread. I don't usually log on during the weekends. :)

I understand where you're coming from. My mother was on welfare and somehow managed to raise two daughters all by herself. Sometimes I went for weeks and all I had to eat was rice. (while my father was vacationing in florida:rolleyes:, but we won't go there! lol )
I know millions of people are so poor they can't afford anything and go for days without eating or bathing. :sad:

Poverty, drugs, and crime are so amazing high in our country. . and that's very sad and disturbing. And I do wish our government could and would do something about it. What are your suggestions Z?

You're right our government certainly isn't perfect. . that's for sure. I find alot of problems wrong with our government too. :smirk:

I also understand the cycle of crime and poverty. I know this doesn't pertain to everybody, but it does to many people.
A family is poor and lives in the high crime areas of a city. The family doesn't have enough money to send their child to college, so the children find themselves back in their own neighborhoods doing drugs or stealing in order to make money. And if no business will hire them, then they have to find somewhere to make their money. But, those businesses probably won't hire them because of a lack of education. . . . which their family couldn't provide.

It's very hard to get out of this cycle if that's all you know and are unable to financially afford to get a degree or find a good job.

Anything else Z? :uhh:

Mutt-

07-22-2002, 9:15pm

Well, given that Angie, the lower courts could do a better job of upholding people's rights, instead of denying them the benefit of doubt and having them to sign waivers. It seems the system even penializes someone for even trying to stand up for their rights these days.

Why is that circumstancial evidence can be held against a person, but circumstancial evidence can't or won't be heard toward a person's defense?

SHANIANUTS!

07-22-2002, 9:20pm

"And we are off to the races!":p

Mutt-

07-22-2002, 9:22pm

Well, she was here, but I think she give up on me. LOL

ShaniaLookAlike

07-22-2002, 9:25pm

Why is that circumstancial evidence can be held against a person, but circumstancial evidence can't or won't be heard toward a person's defense?

Every case is different, and it honestly depends on the situation. I wish there was a clear answer, but there isn't.
Not all judges think alike, so the type of judge you have can make a huge impact on what evidence is allowed and what isn't. :smirk:

Mutt-

07-22-2002, 9:30pm

Aren't all judges bound to uphold the Constitution, the people's rights? That's the supreme law of the land. Don't they also take an oath to support the Constitution like every other official?

SHANIANUTS!

07-22-2002, 9:32pm

So justice varies from judge to judge, eh?

ShaniaLookAlike

07-22-2002, 9:39pm

Originally posted by Mutt-
Aren't all judges bound to uphold the Constitution, the people's rights? That's the supreme law of the land. Don't they also take an oath to support the Constitution like every other official?

Yes, of course. lol :p
There are certain kinds of evidence that they must allow. But even though evidence may be presented, the judges are free to make up there mind if it pertains to the the ruling. That's there job, to uphold the rights and make a ruling based upon the circumstances and evidence.

Sometimes we may agree. . sometimes we don't. :)

ShaniaLookAlike

07-22-2002, 9:40pm

Originally posted by SHANIANUTS!
So justice varies from judge to judge, eh?

I think so. . .they have there pre-conceived ideas too. . just like the rest of us.

But of course the "good" judges don't let their personal feelings influence their decisions. :)

Mutt-

07-22-2002, 9:41pm

Everyone says it varies from judge to judge, but I don't think it's really supposed to be that way, Shanianuts.

ShaniaLookAlike

07-22-2002, 9:42pm

Originally posted by Mutt-
Everyone says it varies from judge to judge, but I don't think it's really supposed to be that way, Shanianuts.

I wish all judges were on the same page too. . but since they're human they're not all going to be the same.

They make mistakes too. . . :smirk:

Mutt-

07-22-2002, 9:46pm

Well, I understand that, Angie, but there are certain guidelines to follow, namely, upholding the constitution. That's what government is for. upholding the rights of the people.

SHANIANUTS!

07-22-2002, 9:50pm

Originally posted by ShaniaLookAlike

I wish all judges were on the same page too. . but since they're human they're not all going to be the same.

They make mistakes too. . . :smirk: Just as we have good & bad lawyers, eh?:p

Mutt-

07-22-2002, 9:52pm

Sorry, my computer is so slow.

What about innocent until proven guilty? Giving the accused the benefit of doubt. And the procecution bearing the burden of proof.

One enforcement officer told me they don't go by these things anymore. And they don't go by these things anymore, but in Louisiana, innocent until proven guilty is a right. But it seems they've made so many laws that they have made these thing of no effect whatsoever.

ShaniaLookAlike

07-22-2002, 9:56pm

Originally posted by Mutt-
That's what government is for. upholding the rights of the people.

I couldn't agree more!! :D

SHANIANUTS!

07-22-2002, 10:01pm

Z - Is all this purely theoretical discussion?

Mutt-

07-22-2002, 10:06pm

I believe that most of the judges we have here are good men and are trying to do the best job they can for the people, but I believe that everyone in this country has taken our rights for granted and maybe there is a rush to "get the guy." by enforcement and our judges don't want to appear to be soft on crime. I understand that.

But, I think alot of the people are suffering these days because of the constant rise in the cost of living, the constant dwindling economy, the lack of good jobs and I think at least, given this the more attention should be paid towards upholding people's rights. I know alot of people who really do have their backs to the wall.

How can people have any kind of defense at all if they are compelled to waive their rights all the time? and not only that, but it seems that people who are poor have a tendency to go ahead and plea guilty, because they believe they have no chance against the system. And when it comes to the poor, there seems to be an attitude of the enforcement, well it's time equals money and they are probably guilty anyway. That's not true justice, Angie.

ShaniaLookAlike

07-22-2002, 10:09pm

Originally posted by Mutt-
Sorry, my computer is so slow.

What about innocent until proven guilty? Giving the accused the benefit of doubt. And the procecution bearing the burden of proof.

One enforcement officer told me they don't go by these things anymore. And they don't go by these things anymore, but in Louisiana, innocent until proven guilty is a right. But it seems they've made so many laws that they have made these thing of no effect whatsoever.

As far as I know "innocent until proven guilty" is upheld in every court. . :uhh:
Of course the media loves to execute people before they even make it to the court room.
However, the courts are suppose to give every citizen a fair trial.

I can't honestly say that every citizen in the history of the US has received a fair trail. . .because many people obviously haven't.
And by the sounds of it. . you must be one of them. :huh:

ShaniaLookAlike

07-22-2002, 10:11pm

Originally posted by Mutt-
And when it comes to the poor, there seems to be an attitude of the enforcement, well it's time equals money and they are probably guilty anyway. That's not true justice, Angie.

No, I strongly disagree with that. :zzz:

I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm just saying it's very very wrong and that's not how the system should work. :smirk:

Mutt-

07-22-2002, 10:14pm

Originally posted by SHANIANUTS!
Z - Is all this purely theoretical discussion?

Well, yes, basically. I mean I haven't given any examples. This is not the best form of communication to do that in these forums. But you can bet what I'm saying is based upon the Constitution and I've partially quoted it some even. So, yes, without examples, I suppose you could say this is purely a theoretical discussion. However, if Angie has had experience in a court of law, then she would know very well what I'm talking about.

ShaniaLookAlike

07-22-2002, 10:18pm

Originally posted by Mutt-

Well, yes, basically. I mean I haven't given any examples. This is not the best form of communication to do that in these forums. But you can bet what I'm saying is based upon the Constitution and I've partially quoted it some even. So, yes, without examples, I suppose you could say this is purely a theoretical discussion. However, if Angie has had experience in a court of law, then she would know very well what I'm talking about.

I never said I was an attorney! lol :p

But I have studied the law more than the average person. I'm aware of how the legal system alone can make people can feel like victims. :uhh:

Mutt-

07-22-2002, 10:28pm

Originally posted by ShaniaLookAlike

No, I strongly disagree with that. :zzz:

I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm just saying it's very very wrong and that's not how the system should work. :smirk:

Well, it may not be that way where you are from, but it is here and not only enforcement but the courts also, the prosecution is ususally that way. I can't give you examples here. It wouldn't be cool in Shania's messageboards. Not all enforcement is bad or all judges, but all have to work together or you know, they don't, if ya know what I mean.

I know that's not the way it should work. It depends upon who you are and everything. It's really hard to be theoretical right now.

ShaniaLookAlike

07-22-2002, 10:32pm

I'm sorry you feel victimized by the system. :sad:
Unfortunately, you are not alone. :sad:

No, of course you don't have to tell any personal stories. . ;)

Any other topics you'd like to discuss? :uhh: :p

SHANIANUTS!

07-22-2002, 10:36pm

"This is known in certain circles as leaving yourself wide open!":p

Mutt-

07-22-2002, 10:36pm

I move that we give it a rest for now and see what's going on with Shania now or Shania's fans rather, ok?

ShaniaLookAlike

07-22-2002, 10:36pm

Originally posted by Mutt-
I move that we give it a rest for now and see what's going on with Shania now or Shania's fans rather, ok?

Ok :D

ShaniaLookAlike

07-22-2002, 10:37pm

Originally posted by SHANIANUTS!
"This is known in certain circles as leaving yourself wide open!":p

That's ok. . I'm always up for discussing anything. :p

La Diablesa

07-23-2002, 8:48am

Originally posted by SHANIANUTS!
Just as we have good & bad lawyers, eh?:p

this is true but this is too scary and sad cause if ure guilty but u have enough money to pay a great lawer u can be out and be free ;) but if ure poor and inocent and u can't pay a good lawer then u could even die :shocked: omg :shocked: this is too foocking scarY!!!!!!!!!!!:uhh: :uhh: :uhh:

how many people that was killed cause they were found guilty later was discovered that they really were inocents?????? ::rolleyes: :shocked: :uhh: SAD TOO SAD AND SCARY :zzz: IF U HAVE MONEY........:rolleyes: THIS IS ONE OF THE REASON IM AGAINST DEATH PENALTY CAUSE I PREFER HAVE ONE MILLION OF GUILTY PEOPLE INTO JAIL FOREVER AND ALIVE THAT ONLY ONE INOCENT PERSON KILLED CAUSE HADN'T ENOUGH MONEY TO SHOW THAT REALLY WAS INOCENT :sad:

:devil:

SHANIANUTS!

07-23-2002, 12:33pm

Originally posted by La Diablesa

this is true but this is too scary and sad cause if ure guilty but u have enough money to pay a great lawer u can be out and be free ;) but if ure poor and inocent and u can't pay a good lawer then u could even die :shocked: omg :shocked: this is too foocking scarY!!!!!!!!!!!:uhh: :uhh: :uhh:

how many people that was killed cause they were found guilty later was discovered that they really were inocents?????? ::rolleyes: :shocked: :uhh: SAD TOO SAD AND SCARY :zzz: IF U HAVE MONEY........:rolleyes: THIS IS ONE OF THE REASON IM AGAINST DEATH PENALTY CAUSE I PREFER HAVE ONE MILLION OF GUILTY PEOPLE INTO JAIL FOREVER AND ALIVE THAT ONLY ONE INOCENT PERSON KILLED CAUSE HADN'T ENOUGH MONEY TO SHOW THAT REALLY WAS INOCENT :sad:

:devil: Z - looks like you have another kindred soul here to chat with, eh?:p

Mutt-

07-23-2002, 3:10pm

Originally posted by SHANIANUTS!
Z - looks like you have another kindred soul here to chat with, eh?:p

Yep Shanianuts! And thanks La D. You are right! It is true and it is scary and sad for the poor, because if ya get accused of anything, the court appointed attorney's are not gonna fight for your rights. They usually simply advise ya to plea guilty take a plea bargain. And that' not justice in my opinion. That's not innocent until proven guilty. That's simply processing people thru the system like a herd of cattle. There is a real life nightmare going on in this country. I don't believe that even one person should go to jail, if they don't belong there.

Lots of times they just throw lots of US citizens in jail until their court date and then at there court date give them time served. That's not justice!!! I believe every citizen in this country has a right to a fail trial and a proper defense and millions of poor people are simply not getting it in this country. How sad. People are just simply not aware of what's going on in the lower courts these days. It is like they have sliced the scales in justice in half and left off the defense and rights side. It is very scary! It is a nightmare! And it is not right.

Mutt-

07-23-2002, 3:44pm

And I will tell you something else. As a result of this, there hundreds of thousands of people walking around on the streets and are considered "convicted felons," but they never got a fair trial, no defense whatsoever. They can't get a decent job. They can't vote. And there's alot of other stuff they can't do. And it's causing welfare to skyrocket. With the shrinking economy, the taxpayer is becoming an endangered species. It's causing the cost of living to rise. Businesses must compete for fewer and fewer paying customers.

And all this is because the Constitutional rights of the people are not being upheld. Infact, every thing is being done to abridge those rights. People who have never even been accused of any wrong doing or been in any trouble complain that they are losing more and more of their rights and freedoms everyday. Well, this is why. All our government officials must take an oath to support the Constitution, but it's not being done. As I said before, I believe that's the sole purpose of government is to uphold the rights of the people and the rights of the accused. Why the rights of the accused? because anyone can be accused of anything, that doesn't make them guilty. Everyone should have a right to a fair trial.

The priviledge of the writ of habias corpus is being denied to the accused. It is a constitutional priviledge that basically says that that no person shall be jailed on little or no evidence at all and is a court order to appear to see if there are sufficient grounds for holding someone to answer in jail (hold in jail). You need sufficient evidence to put people in jail. What does the 14 amendment say? People need to really read the constitution and especially the bill of rights part. People really need to know their rights. Because it has never been more important than this day in which we live.

Our flag stands for freedom and liberty and justice for all. Well, we in the US gotta stand for it too. Because it isn't right for politicians to preach human rights in the rest of the world and be so lax with the people's rights here at home.

Thank you very much speech concluded for now.