Next Album More In The Style Of TWIM [Archive]

Gandalf

11-24-2002, 3:32pm

I myself , although loving Up!, when I first heard it was alittle disappointed. From all that ahd been said before the rleaese I was expecting something much closer to TWIM, than COO. Not that I don't love Up!, it's just I miss something. TWIM is my favourite Shania album. i lov e every song there, whereas there were a couple on COo, and about 3 on Up1 that I think are only OK. Now, I'm not a coutnry fan, (Heck, I come form the UK, thats as good a reason as any) but TWIM wasn't a real pure country album by a long way. COO, and Up! (but too a lesser extent I feel) are pop albums, despite the Green disc thing with UP! sure, you gotta couple of tunes on these CD's such as LGMET and Ain't Going down, but they're basicaly pop albums, and this dissapointed me a little. Country music, i feel, is much deeper than pop music, Lyrically, at least. Songs like HAWHHIA, TWIM, ITLAL, ROOL have very deep lyrics. Even the lyrics in the more upbeat, faster tunes are more inteligent, take IYNIIFL(IOH). Whereas the last two albums have songs where the lyrics are just nbot as deep, excluding on COO, the few like YSTO. Infact, on Up! the lyrics are even less inteligent, even the "deep2 ballads have pretty basic lyrics i.e When You Kiss Me,

This could be it,
I think I'm in Love,
It's love this time, it just seems to fit (I think, can't remeber off the top of my head, but that's the general jist)

Compared with

Remeber me, the way I was, the way I'd make you late for work, I had to hold just because...

I just can';t hlp but feel dissapointed. If, in the next couple of years, maybe three, when the next album comes out, the album is as simple as the last two, I'll be really dissapointed, cos I think that unless shania starts to make material like that on TWIM, then the world, the fans, and music will have lost something. So, I'm asking the question DO YOU FEEL THAT THE NEXT ALBUM SHOULD BE MORE LIKE TWIM?

twaintrain

11-24-2002, 3:38pm

I would really like a blend of all her albums. I like every song on TWIM, COO, and Up! I would like to hear her some more traditional country like TWIM and still keep her edge with pop. Her voice sounds so great on traditional country. But, whatever she does is fine with me, I trust her judgement. :)

SHANIANUTS!

11-24-2002, 3:40pm

Shania does not go backwards.

If she makes another album...outside of a Christmas disk or a Greatest hits album..it will be unique and like nothing else she has done. You cannot do better than AMOM or WBHYBBU - we have those songs for eternity to enjoy and savor...as well as This Man of Mine, the demo to AMOM, which to me is a song that begs for commercial release.

Cheyenne55

11-24-2002, 3:53pm

Originally posted by SHANIANUTS!
Shania does not go backwards.

If she makes another album...outside of a Christmas disk or a Greatest hits albume.

I concur. Shania does not go backwards. Heck why would she. Album sales have gone up with each album since Shania Twain.

The woman in me was a good album, COO was better and up is so far the best. I really think Twaintrain has it nailed. She did blend all three albums, Ok, two TWIM and COO with UP. This album is a blend of all three. The old, the new and the newest.

Well, heck, It just the way I look at things ;)

Gandalf

11-24-2002, 4:02pm

If going back means she'll start to produce songs of the calibre of the TWIM ballads, songs as good as HAWHHIA, TWIM, ITLAL and ROOL, then I think going back is gonna be best. You say how the album sales have improved. True. but i betcha that if TWIM had come after COO it would have sold better. Each album is building on the success of the previous album, therefore by saying that the sales have improve is true, its not a point of any signifcance in this debate.

Gandalf

11-24-2002, 4:42pm

Originally posted by Cheyenne55
I concur. Shania does not go backwards. Heck why would she. Album sales have gone up with each album since Shania Twain.

The woman in me was a good album, COO was better and up is so far the best. I really think Twaintrain has it nailed. She did blend all three albums, Ok, two TWIM and COO with UP. This album is a blend of all three. The old, the new and the newest.

Well, heck, It just the way I look at things ;)

But tell me, can you honestly say you think that the Up! lyrica are better than those on TWIM?

Cheyenne55

11-24-2002, 6:01pm

Originally posted by Gandalf
But tell me, can you honestly say you think that the Up! lyrica are better than those on TWIM?

Song for song , no. Do I think Up is a better album then TWIM, yes. Only because it is more upbeat, more positive. The music and songs are more , for lack of a better word today sounding.

The woman in me was a great album, and I still listen to it. But it has a lot of really sad, slow songs. If you look Back, most the slow songs didn't do really well on the charts. The faster songs, for the most part, were better hits. I think Shania learned from that, and From COO. Up I still say is a combination of the other two, with a modern feel.

DOn't get me wrong, TWIM is a classic and in the right mood, I get lost on the lyrics and music
:)

SHANIANUTS!

11-24-2002, 6:05pm

Originally posted by Gandalf
If going back means she'll start to produce songs of the calibre of the TWIM ballads, songs as good as HAWHHIA, TWIM, ITLAL and ROOL, then I think going back is gonna be best. You say how the album sales have improved. True. but i betcha that if TWIM had come after COO it would have sold better. Each album is building on the success of the previous album, therefore by saying that the sales have improve is true, its not a point of any signifcance in this debate. It is so very nice to see one so young speaking so extremely thoughtfully and articulately ..... have you met Steph from Canada? She and you appear to have a lot in common in that area.

Andrew

11-24-2002, 6:33pm

I have to agree with Gandalf here. Lately I have been getting more interested in the lyrics of songs. I have noticed that Shania seemed a lot more mature and grown up on TWIM. Sorry, I just think that's the truth. :smirk:

aFinn

11-24-2002, 6:54pm

COO and UP are in my opinion meant to be UPbeat and have catchy songs.

moshe

11-24-2002, 6:54pm

I actually think Shanias songwritting has
matured.The title track on UP! may be
light-weight but listen to "Juanita" which
is not only a gorgeous tune,but quite deep
lyricly."Ka-Ching!" is a witty song about
consummerism,and "Nah!" may not be deep,but
it is a brilliant & very catchy tune.
Each Twain album has been so diffferent to
its predcecesors.I don't think UP! is COO
mark2.It is very diffferent,musically &
lyrically.
I think the concept of doing 3 versions is great-*I just think they should all have been
available.I like the red best so far,but
I'm really getting into the blue.I
ordered the Green,so I should receive thnat
monday.I think UP! is such a varied album,
and some of the songs are quite subtle

SHANIANUTS!

11-24-2002, 7:15pm

3 hours and 39 minutes of heaven for under $10 - it seems incredible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Andrew

11-24-2002, 7:40pm

Up! Is my favorite Shania album at this moment though. :) I think it is better than COO. Some parts are better than TWIM. :smirk:

Heather

11-24-2002, 9:08pm

Shania has never really been strictly a country artist:) Personally, if she went back to creating music in the vein of TWIM, I would be dissapointed. I really don't think it was her best work and I found the ballads with the exception of TWIM to be pretty dull. The ballads on UP are passionate and vibrant rather than the cliched "he's leaving me" country-style ballads. Part of the enjoyment I get from music is seeing an artist grow:) With UP Shania has proven that she has;)

shaniarools

11-24-2002, 9:48pm

TWIM is by far my fave Shania album. I think it is the perfect mix of country and rock, not pop.
I think that because TWIM is the first Shania album I heard, and becaue I listened to it, and still listen to it, A LOT, I've gotten it stuck in my head that that is what Shania is supposed to sound like. Thus, whenever I listen to her new stuff, I'm kinda disappointed that it does not sound the same. I keep forgetting that an artist eveloves, both personally and professionally, so Shania's songs will definately change.
Now, don't get me wrong guys, I LOVE the new stuff. I cannot emphasize that enough. And I can see how Shania evloved as a songwriter, and how the songs on the last two albums translate into the songs from TWIM. But I think that my initial reaction is disappointement because TWIM is sooooo great that I want all her other albums to sound like it. It is only after I've listened to the new stuff a couple of times, that I realize how wonderful it is.
So, to finally (!) answer the question, I would love it if the next album sounded more like TWIM. But if it didn't, I think I would love it anyway cause Shania is such an amazing songwriter, and paired with Mutt, there is no telling what they could do!!!

shaniarools

11-24-2002, 10:15pm

Originally posted by SHANIANUTS!
...as well as This Man of Mine, the demo to AMOM, which to me is a song that begs for commercial release...

Sorry, I may be out of the loop, but you guys heard This Man of Mine? I didn't know that it had been released, in one form or another. Can you tell me where you heard it, please?

jonno

11-25-2002, 2:40am

I think a blend of her albums would be an excellent idea. A BIT FOR EVERYONE> i was thinking, though, seeing as her next album will be her 5th, do u think it may be time for a best of... It seems that many mainstream artist put out a best of.. after four or five albums.

Jealous

11-25-2002, 10:50am

I love TWIM, COO, and UP! But I think Shania has had deep songs on all her albums. I think Up! has the most...it's all about social concsiousness, and issues that many artists would never dare address. Often people think that in order for lyrics to be "deep" or "meaningful" that they have to be sad, angry, or distraught. TWIM was full of sad songs true, but that does not mean they are any lyrically deeper than anything on Up! I think Up! has great lyrics: Check out She's Not Just A Pretty Face, Juanita, It Only Hurts When I'm Breathing, I'm Jealous, Ka-Ching, What A Way To Wanna Be, and even In My Car. In My Car may sound lightweight, but it really is a metaphor for a woman to be in control of herself and independent in a relationship. I Think Shania has grown as an artist, so I wouldn't want her to go back to sounding like TWIM, she has grown since then. Now, don't get me wrong, TWIM is a fabulous album, and I love sad songs and all the songs on that CD, but I think I like UP! better because Shania was once again original and addressed some issues that other artists are scared to address. I admire Shania for that.

beddoe79

11-25-2002, 1:42pm

she has progressed with every album. she isn't going to go back to one of her earlier album styles as she has gained more musical experience and diversity since them. i think she will just keep progressing musically

Gandalf

11-25-2002, 3:02pm

Originally posted by Heather
Shania has never really been strictly a country artist:) . I really don't think it was her best work and I found the ballads with the exception of TWIM to be pretty dull. The ballads on UP are passionate and vibrant rather than the cliched "he's leaving me" country-style ballads.

How can you call them cliched country style ballads about "he's leaving me". HAWHHIA, is not about hime leaving her, its about a marraigwe where the love's gone. TWIM, she's saying that she needs him to be more like the guy she fell in love with (kinda very grown up version of Avril Lavigne's complicated, for those of you who care), ITLAL, she had an affair! And ROOL, maybe, this is kinda what you said, but obly one of them, out of four!

Gandalf

11-25-2002, 3:04pm

Originally posted by SHANIANUTS!
It is so very nice to see one so young speaking so extremely thoughtfully and articulately ..... have you met Steph from Canada? She and you appear to have a lot in common in that area.

THanks (if you're not being sarcastic, sorry if you're not). And yes, I do"know" steph from Canada.

Heather

11-25-2002, 3:40pm

Originally posted by Gandalf
How can you call them cliched country style ballads about "he's leaving me". HAWHHIA, is not about hime leaving her, its about a marraigwe where the love's gone. TWIM, she's saying that she needs him to be more like the guy she fell in love with (kinda very grown up version of Avril Lavigne's complicated, for those of you who care), ITLAL, she had an affair! And ROOL, maybe, this is kinda what you said, but obly one of them, out of four!

Gandalf:)

I don't really care for TWIM ballads, simple as that. I honestly don't think they are Shania's best and really are too country for my tastes. Some of the songs on the album are great, but those particular tracks aren't, again in my opinion. I personally don't really see the point in comparing UP to TWIM. These are two completely different albums and Shania has moved on as an artist:)

Gandalf

11-25-2002, 4:39pm

Originally posted by Heather
Gandalf:)
Shania has moved on as an artist:)

True. she has moved on, progressed. but has this progression been for the better. One of the main points I'm tryig to make here is that perhaps going back to the style of some of the earlier material may help to produce overall better music.

Heather

11-25-2002, 6:22pm

Originally posted by Gandalf
One of the main points I'm tryig to make here is that perhaps going back to the style of some of the earlier material may help to produce overall better music.

Well that would be your opinion *shrugs*:) There are a lot of people who like the direction she is heading in, but some people don't. C'est La vie:)

SHANIANUTS!

11-25-2002, 6:36pm

Originally posted by shaniarools
Sorry, I may be out of the loop, but you guys heard This Man of Mine? I didn't know that it had been released, in one form or another. Can you tell me where you heard it, please? It has not been released but got on the net and has been downloaded from many services like and including Kazaa I believe.

SHANIANUTS!

11-25-2002, 6:37pm

Originally posted by Gandalf
THanks (if you're not being sarcastic, sorry if you're not). And yes, I do"know" steph from Canada. No sarcasm intended - it was a sincere compliment.

ShaniaLookAlike

11-25-2002, 8:00pm

TWIM is my favorite album ever too! :D :D

I love the ballads from TWIM and I've missed then for such a long time. :smirk: I love songs that relax you, just like taking a long hot bath! :p

But I think Up! is alot like TWIM. It has more 'love' songs on it then COO did. . . or at least it seems like it.

"When You Kiss Me" gives me the feeling of "The Woman In Me". It's so smooth and beautiful. :up:

Honestly, I think Up! is a perfect mixture of TWIM and COO. :]

I don't ever see Shania going back to making music that is 'country' like TWIM was. I think she's moved on. . it's like "been there, done that."

But I would love it if she went back there again! :D

twaintrain

11-25-2002, 10:46pm

TWIM is sentimental. Of course most of us miss it, that was when I first fell in love with Shania's music. It was the "honeymoon" album for Shania and Mutt, it was the beginning. I think Shania's voice sounded so passionate on the ballads. I would, as I stated before, love to here a blend of TWIM, COO, and Up on her next album.

SHANIA'S ALWAYS GREAT! :)

shanilia

11-26-2002, 1:48am

I think the next album should sound more like "The Woman in Me," but it probably won't. That album has brilliant songwriting and music to match.

But Shania has settled into the country/rock sound with simple lyrics and fun melodies that are uniquely Shania, which has worked in "Come on Over," and she's sticking with what works, hence "Up!" That means she probably won't return back to "The Woman in Me" style.

shanilia

11-26-2002, 1:56am

Originally posted by Gandalf
I Infact, on Up! the lyrics are even less inteligent, even the "deep2 ballads have pretty basic lyrics i.e When You Kiss Me,

This could be it,
I think I'm in Love,
It's love this time, it just seems to fit (I think, can't remeber off the top of my head, but that's the general jist)

Compared with

Remeber me, the way I was, the way I'd make you late for work, I had to hold just because...

I just can';t hlp but feel dissapointed. If, in the next couple of years, maybe three, when the next album comes out, the album is as simple as the last two, I'll be really dissapointed, cos I think that unless shania starts to make material like that on TWIM, then the world, the fans, and music will have lost something. I agree with this. I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed how simple the lyrics in "Up!" are. And I'm glad someone brought up the comparisons of the lyrics from both albums. It's so clear that "The Woman in Me" had some fantastic lyrics, especially in "Home Ain't Where His Heart Is."

In "Up!," the lyrics can't stand alone without the music; they are just too simple and sound "dumb." I read the lyrics before I heard the album, and gosh do they sound dumb. But once I heard the music along with the words, I understood why the lyrics are so childish (because upbeat fun songs don't sound as good with serious lyrics, and it's not Shania's style to be deep anymore).

Don't get me wrong. I really like "Up!" I just agree with Gandalf about the lyrics.

tower

11-26-2002, 9:22am

Oh such a difficult one. I love "The Woman in Me" but I love Up! too. Shania must be allowed to go where her talent takes her, we are just along for the ride, and must not put any pressure on the creative process at work here.

Who knows what is next, I doubt if Shania or Mutt even know that one. A difficult poll and I think the results are proving just how difficult it is. Possibly you could edit the poll and make it a 4 choice one? I mean "It only hurts (when I am Breathing) is up there with the best of "TWIM" - it is scary how Shania's songs gets right inside me and quickly disarm my normal defenses, reducing me to an emotional wreck!! (but I like it that way!) :D

Gandalf

11-26-2002, 2:26pm

Originally posted by SHANIANUTS!
No sarcasm intended - it was a sincere compliment.

Ok. I'm sorry. But you always lose something in the expression of what is said in the written word. If I could ahve heard you speak, I would have known what you meant. But anyway, sorry. and off course, thanks.

:) :) :)

Gandalf

11-26-2002, 2:31pm

Originally posted by shanilia
I read the lyrics before I heard the album, and gosh do they sound dumb. But once I heard the music along with the words, I understood why the lyrics are so childish (because upbeat fun songs don't sound as good with serious lyrics, and it's not Shania's style to be deep anymore).

What you've said here is really interesting. What I was saying about very simple lyrics, i was saying from only having heard them when being sung. But, when I went awya and read them, no music, I realised how dumb they really are. This is SO TRUE! Even more baisc and childish than I had thought of to begin with. Heck, my five year old sister can understand pretty much everything that's said! Great piece of advise here, do what Shanilia did and read the Up! lyrics without music, and then go read the lyrics To Home Ain't hwere His heart Is, or Raining On Our Love, maybe you'll see what we mean.

Heather

11-26-2002, 3:56pm

Originally posted by Gandalf
But, when I went awya and read them, no music, I realised how dumb they really are. This is SO TRUE! Even more baisc and childish than I had thought of to begin with. Heck, my five year old sister can understand pretty much everything that's said! Great piece of advise here, do what Shanilia did and read the Up! lyrics without music, and then go read the lyrics To Home Ain't hwere His heart Is, or Raining On Our Love, maybe you'll see what we mean.

Again that's your opinion and not the gospel truth:) TWIM is a well written album, no doubt, but so is UP in my opinion. Being a writer I have been told time and time again by other writers and professors that the simplest sentence can be the most profound if written the right way. The lyrical content of Up may be simpler in composition, but it still packs an emotional punch:) In short just because you term it overly simplistic doesn't mean it's not effective or that it's elementary. Good music is apple and oranges, just like anyother art form. But, I have a feeling that the majority of Shania fans enjoy and appreciate UP for what it is, a great album both musically and lyrically:)

Gandalf

11-26-2002, 4:18pm

Originally posted by Heather
Again that's your opinion and not the gospel truth:) TWIM is a well written album, no doubt, but so is UP in my opinion. Being a writer I have been told time and time again by other writers and professors that the simplest sentence can be the most profound if written the right way. The lyrical content of Up may be simpler in composition, but it still packs an emotional punch:) In short just because you term it overly simplistic doesn't mean it's not effective or that it's elementary. Good music is apple and oranges, just like anyother art form. But, I have a feeling that the majority of Shania fans enjoy and appreciate UP for what it is, a great album both musically and lyrically:)

Ok. You say that simple and more detrailed lyrics convey the same emotional impact.

When You Kiss Me (First verse)

This could be it, I think I'm in love
It's love this time
It just seems to fit, i think I'm in love
This love is mine

I can see you with me when I'm older
All my lonely nights are finally over
You took the weight of the world off my
shoulders (the world just goes away)

Now, the first verse of Home Ain't where His Heart Is

He knew how to reach me deep inside
And he found a part of me I could not hide
And we'd walk and talk and touch tenderly
then he'd lay me down and make love to me

We built a love so strong it couldn't break
there was not a road we were afraid to take
And we'd kiss all the way from arkansas to rome
cos in each other's arms we were Home sweet home
But he don't feel the same since our lives became
Years of bills babies and chains

what does the first verse of when you kiss Me say to you? To me, i get the impression she's in love, but that's mainly due to the repetition of the word. I also get the fact she thinks htey'll be together forever. Now Im not saying I don't like this song, when its sung with the muic it really is beautifuil. But it just doesn't have the emotional impact and the strong lyrics of the secopnd song. From the HAWHHIA lyrics i understand that she has a husband, but the lov e has gone fronm thier marraige. They used to eb sooooo good together btu now that's just gone. He just comes home, they probably sleep spearatly, they watch TV all evening, never talk, or go out spearatly. They have children, that's probably the only reason they're still together. I get all this form the lyrics, because of thier complexity, and deepness. when i hear when You Kiss Me, I see shsnia in a field (don't ask why) in
the spring, wearing white, with a man. That's all!

Anyway, the point I wanted fro showing those lyrics, see what impression you get from each, and then come back and tell me you think that the typical Up! lyrics are nearly as strong and have nearly as much impact as those from TWIM.

Heather

11-26-2002, 4:53pm

Originally posted by Gandalf
Anyway, the point I wanted fro showing those lyrics, see what impression you get from each, and then come back and tell me you think that the typical Up! lyrics are nearly as strong and have nearly as much impact as those from TWIM.

Gandalf,

What is your issue? I like the lyrics and music on UP and so do a lot of other people. If you like TWIM better, that's perfectly fine:) But, you seem to have a problem with people not agreeing with you. I think WYKM is a beautiful, emotive song. The lyrics stand on their own in my opinion. Sorry, but I don't think that based on your personal opinion that people are suddenly going to believe that UP is some how inferior to TWIM. At the end of the day, no one really gives a hoot if someone believes that HAWHHI is any better than WYKM. It's a matter of opinion, simple as that. They are both great, but very different albums, end of story. You either get it or you don't:)

Gandalf

11-26-2002, 5:17pm

Originally posted by Heather
Gandalf,

What is your issue? I like the lyrics and music on UP and so do a lot of other people. If you like TWIM better, that's perfectly fine:) But, you seem to have a problem with people not agreeing with you. I think WYKM is a beautiful, emotive song. The lyrics stand on their own in my opinion. Sorry, but I don't think that based on your personal opinion that people are suddenly going to believe that UP is some how inferior to TWIM. At the end of the day, no one really gives a hoot if someone believes that HAWHHI is any better than WYKM. It's a matter of opinion, simple as that. They are both great, but very different albums, end of story. You either get it or you don't:)

Look Heather, let's just cut to the chase here. My "issue" is not just with people's opinion of the songs and I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with what I say. This thread is very much like a dbate. You try to show to me and prove to me and convince me what you think and/or believe is correcxt,a nd I trey to poersuade you in the same way. I accept that you have your own opinion, and I have mine, and mine is that the lyrics on Up!, and COO, are inferior in depth and quality to those on TWIm. By comapring the two songs I was trying to highlight this and persuade you that what I thoguht was correct. Whether you choose to accept what I say or not is up to you, but I'm going to keep trying, because if I back down whenever there's a difference of opinion I'm going to end Up! getting pushed around by everyone. Sorry if this has been very blunt, but I just wanted to make things clear to you.

SHANIANUTS!

11-26-2002, 5:24pm

:nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous:

Gandalf,

You may be biting off more than you can chew - Heater is a woman to be reckoned with.:p

Food for thought just before she chews you up and spits you out in little pieces!:p

Gandalf

11-26-2002, 5:47pm

Originally posted by SHANIANUTS!
:nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous:

Gandalf,

You may be biting off more than you can chew - Heater is a woman to be reckoned with.:p

Food for thought just before she chews you up and spits you out in little pieces!:p

Thanks for the advice, SHANIANUTS!, but I can handle the situation. Hey, you wanna know osmething, read my signiture!

I Ain't Goin' Down!

But seriously, when you've lived with my mum gor your whole life,you know how to fight an argument!

Heather

11-26-2002, 5:59pm

Originally posted by Gandalf
You try to show to me and prove to me and convince me what you think and/or believe is correcxt,a nd I trey to poersuade you in the same way. I accept that you have your own opinion, and I have mine, and mine is that the lyrics on Up!, and COO, are inferior in depth and quality to those on TWIm. By comapring the two songs I was trying to highlight this and persuade you that what I thoguht was correct. Whether you choose to accept what I say or not is up to you, but I'm going to keep trying..

Gandalf,

First of all you are the person who began this thread:) So clearly you are the person who feels the need to prove and convince people that your opinion is fact. I don't feel the need to because I feel the material on UP stands on it's own:) And if you are comfortable with your opinion and feel it is the honest to God truth, then you won't feel the need to constantly engage in pointless debates on something that is based solely on individual opinion anyway. If you want to stay on this old merry-go-round and keep posting lyrical comparisons, have at it *shrugs* There are some things worth debating about and others that aren't. In my opinion, this simply isn't.

Gandalf

11-27-2002, 1:00pm

Originally posted by Heather
Gandalf,

First of all you are the person who began this thread:) So clearly you are the person who feels the need to prove and convince people that your opinion is fact. I don't feel the need to because I feel the material on UP stands on it's own:) And if you are comfortable with your opinion and feel it is the honest to God truth, then you won't feel the need to constantly engage in pointless debates on something that is based solely on individual opinion anyway. If you want to stay on this old merry-go-round and keep posting lyrical comparisons, have at it *shrugs* There are some things worth debating about and others that aren't. In my opinion, this simply isn't.

If this is worth debating, Heather, why do you keep comig back for more!?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

kwokster

11-27-2002, 1:47pm

If Come On Over did not sell in the way it had and been a complete flop then I'm sure Shania and Mutt would have gone back to the style of writing we heard on 'The Woman In Me'.

The fact is, COO sold in excess of 35 million worldwide and opened up markets previously resistant to country music (that is, Shania's brand of country). It would have been commercial suicide to 'step backwards' and undo all that hard work.

Who knows? In the next few years, when Up! has outsold Thriller and her place in history assured, she may decide to make 'The Woman In Me 2' for the fans who were with her from the start.

Little Shania

11-27-2002, 2:23pm

I love all of them the same!!! :D:D:D Can't choose one or two favourites. :p :D:D

Heather

11-27-2002, 3:41pm

Originally posted by Gandalf
If this is worth debating, Heather, why do you keep comig back for more!?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Because I couldn't resist bucking your point of view that your opinion was 100% fact:smirk: It's not a fact that TWIM is a better album than COO or UP, it's an opinion simple as that. Now, on to more UP beat discussions:p

Gandalf

11-29-2002, 3:12pm

Really Heather, well u know what, i cant resist disagreeing with u as well, and I say this "The lyrics 4 Up! are easily understood by my 5 year ols sister

Gandalf

11-30-2002, 4:28am

Anyway

I think that the Lyrics for Up! don't have the dimension and depth of thos from TWIM. I say this because I feel that everything expressed in Up! is done in a very simple way, with no deeper meaning beyond what the words are saying. i've already compared when you kiss me with ROOL, and perhaps this wasnt a good enough comparison to eprhaps show what I'm thinking. That is, that the lyrics in TWIM do convey a message, but thats the purpose of all songs. however, the way that that message is delivered is done in sauperior way n TWIM. I urge you all, read the lyrics to HAWHHIA and see how they convey the message there, and then read those of When You Kiss me, or forever And for ALways, and se how thye do it. I believe that most of you will see my point, unlike Kwokster, who just try to dismiss my argument with sales figures, and I have said this before if they came the other way around, the slaes would have merely been reversed. And unlike Heather, who, as she has said, only keeps posting because she can't resist arguing with me.

kwokster

11-30-2002, 7:00am

Could it be that Mutt had already written most of TWIM before he met Shania? After all, he was already an accomplished songwriter/musician so it's not unfeasible. You also have to wonder how such an unlikely couple ever hooked up in the first place. Her first album did reasonably well but she was already 28 and with younger rivals on the Nashville circuit all vying for the same songs from the same ol' songwriters, her next record needed to be the breakthrough. And if someone (from outside Nashville) was to come along with a bunch of catchy, well-crafted songs...

Obviously, Shania has songwriting talent and that was allowed to shine on COO and Up! I love all 3 albums and I'm not trying to be controversial for the sake of it. Just trying to offer an possible explanation for the marked difference between the lyrical content of TWIM and COO/Up!

Gandalf

11-30-2002, 7:25am

Originally posted by kwokster
Could it be that Mutt had already written most of TWIM before he met Shania? After all, he was already an accomplished songwriter/musician so it's not unfeasible. You also have to wonder how such an unlikely couple ever hooked up in the first place. Her first album did reasonably well but she was already 28 and with younger rivals on the Nashville circuit all vying for the same songs from the same ol' songwriters, her next record needed to be the breakthrough. And if someone (from outside Nashville) was to come along with a bunch of catchy, well-crafted songs...

Obviously, Shania has songwriting talent and that was allowed to shine on COO and Up! I love all 3 albums and I'm not trying to be controversial for the sake of it. Just trying to offer an possible explanation for the marked difference between the lyrical content of TWIM and COO/Up!

Now of all the things asid in this thread this is by far the most ridiculous! What crap
I'm sorry, but how can you even think that mutt wrote the songs before he met Shania? I'm sorry, this is crap

kwokster

11-30-2002, 12:58pm

If you check the lyric sheet for TWIM you will find that "You Win My Love" was credited to R J Lange *alone*. That means he wrote that song without help from Shania. Songwriters are always writing songs, how is inconceivable that he didn't already have that song (and many more) already written? If he didn't meet Shania, that great song would have certainly been snapped up by some other artist.

How many of the Beatles songs which were credited "Lennon/McCartney" actual 50-50 collaborations? We all know which were Paul's songs and which were John's songs. Just how much input is required in order to get a songwriting credit anyway?

A classic example is Robbie Williams. When he was in Take That, what songwriting potential did he show? According to Gary Barlow, absolutely none. And yet he goes solo and 'co-writes' a slew of hits with Guy Chambers. Did he suddenly learn the art of songwriting overnight? Or did Robbie just tinker with a few lyrics, make a few suggestions here and there?

I am not saying Shania is untalented as a songwriter. There are so many songs on COO and Up! that are unmistakably hers. If she was such a genius, why wasn't her first album like TWIM?

The fact is, no-one except Shania and Mutt will know the true level of contribution each has made.

Before we lose focus, you were originally bemoaning the fact that the ballads on TWIM seem more substantial than the ones on Up! I was merely offering a possible explanation.

canoilers

11-30-2002, 1:05pm

SHANIANUTS!

11-30-2002, 1:22pm

Originally posted by kwokster
If you check the lyric sheet for TWIM you will find that "You Win My Love" was credited to R J Lange *alone*. That means he wrote that song without help from Shania. Songwriters are always writing songs, how is inconceivable that he didn't already have that song (and many more) already written? If he didn't meet Shania, that great song would have certainly been snapped up by some other artist.

How many of the Beatles songs which were credited "Lennon/McCartney" actual 50-50 collaborations? We all know which were Paul's songs and which were John's songs. Just how much input is required in order to get a songwriting credit anyway?

A classic example is Robbie Williams. When he was in Take That, what songwriting potential did he show? According to Gary Barlow, absolutely none. And yet he goes solo and 'co-writes' a slew of hits with Guy Chambers. Did he suddenly learn the art of songwriting overnight? Or did Robbie just tinker with a few lyrics, make a few suggestions here and there?

I am not saying Shania is untalented as a songwriter. There are so many songs on COO and Up! that are unmistakably hers. If she was such a genius, why wasn't her first album like TWIM?

The fact is, no-one except Shania and Mutt will know the true level of contribution each has made.

Before we lose focus, you were originally bemoaning the fact that the ballads on TWIM seem more substantial than the ones on Up! I was merely offering a possible explanation. kwokster - your above post is very interesting and I wanted to interject some appropriate thoughts and comments and feedback.

1 - Shania did not have the stature of Mutt Lange in '93 and the Nashville good ole boys did not choose to use but one of her tunes for Shania Twain (she had no bargaining power) - they also were not Mutt Lange in the production area - hence Shania Twain and TWIM were worlds apart. For my money Shania Twain is a fantastic debut album showcasing Shania's great voice and I personally listen to it as much as any other Shania album.

2 - songwriting credits - regarding what it takes to get a songwriting credit - that question is one for the ages - there is no rule and there is no rhyme or reason as to how songwriting credits are obtaining - in the 1950s Buddy Holly had his arm twisted by Norman Petty many times allowing him to have songwriting credits when his contributions to Buddy's tunes were extremely minimal or even non-existent at times (Petty owned the studios where Holly recorded). This same scenario has played out in the recorded music field countless times. As you state the general public will never know who contributes more or less on a Shania/Mutt song.

Gandalf

12-14-2002, 10:27am

This is very interesting SHANIANUTS! Its a very interesting point. But to this question, i suppose there only two people that know the answer to the question. However, whoever is writing them, in my opinion is not doing as good a job as they were when they wrote TWIM.

SHANIANUTS!

12-14-2002, 6:34pm

I agree - I think the songs Shania is more responsible for lyrically are my favorites and always will be.

ultimateShaniafan

12-15-2002, 12:05am

I think in some of the recent specials that Shania has made it clear that most of the songs on TWIM were already in the beginning stages before she met Mutt. In one she went so far to say that the lyrics are mainly all hers and Mutt writes the music.

Each of them are solely responsible for one song on TWIM. Listening to each of those songs should give an idea of thier separate writing styles.

I agree that UP! is an improvement over COO, but not over TWIM. I like the more country sound of TWIM, and UP! seems to be closer to it than to COO.

Spartan

12-15-2002, 1:01am

Where can I hear the demo of this man of mine?

SHANIANUTS!

12-15-2002, 1:57am

Originally posted by Spartan
Where can I hear the demo of this man of mine? Here are the lyrics - perhaps one of the members here who has it can send it to you - I am pretty illiterate computer wise and have not a clue how to do that:

This Man Of Mine

This man of mine is all I hoped for
He's everything I dreamed and so much more
He's got a way to make the sun shine when it rains
He's got a way I can't explain

Chorus
This man of mine is a walkin', talkin' angel
He's the reason that I live
This man of mine's got a gentle soul, a heart of gold
And so much love to give
There will never be another one like him
I love this man of mine

This man of mine is a believer
A dreamer of lover's in the sand
he likes to go for long walks and he always holds my hand
He's a romantic kind of man

Chorus

Bridge
He doesn't have a bad bone in his body
No he never has a mean thing on his mind
And when he says he'll be somewhere he's always on time
He's too good to be true this man of mine

Chorus

Chorus

foggy

12-15-2002, 2:23am

I also feel Shania's music has matured and that the progression has been very positive. What sets WIM apart (imo) is that she was falling in love while writing WIM. By allowing her feelings to spill over into her music, WIM became not necessarily better but very special in its own right. :)

irene

12-15-2002, 4:27am

The lyrics of the ballads in UP! is in the same league as YGAW, very cliched and irrelevant, but alot of people find it highly romantic. I personally think songs like "When you kiss me" or "I'm Jealous" aren't songs that one will relate to. The lyrics are complete cliched and forgettable. But this in no ways means that these songs are terrible, IMO. Shania is capable or writting excellent lyrics. To put it bluntly, WYKM is a make out song, ideal for a romantic evening. The lyrics are so irrelevant that you will only notice the repeat YOUs, MEs, KISSes and LOVEs in the lyrics....and that's really all that's need in a song like this. I concur with Heather, LESS IS MORE. UP!'s strength is in its arrangements which outshines the lyrics. The lyrics can't stand on its own because their sole function seems to be as an embellishment to the music. When you start dissecting the lyrics, you will hate the album because UP! isn't a lyrically driven album. It's selling point is the atmosphere. The ballads are romantic and the uptempos are fun. Nevertheless, one of the worst songs on UP! is IMGGG IMO. It's so generic and is missing that Shania attitute.

I honestly don't want TWIM Pt 2. I hope to get something different next time. If she is still the risktaker that she was with TWIM, then I want something extremely creative instead of just keep steering towards the pop direction. Maybe something crazy like electronica+country/pop or psychedelic country music with melodic tunes?:p :p

Gandalf

12-15-2002, 6:35am

Originally posted by SHANIANUTS!

This Man Of Mine

This man of mine is all I hoped for
He's everything I dreamed and so much more
He's got a way to make the sun shine when it rains
He's got a way I can't explain

Chorus
This man of mine is a walkin', talkin' angel
He's the reason that I live
This man of mine's got a gentle soul, a heart of gold
And so much love to give
There will never be another one like him
I love this man of mine

This man of mine is a believer
A dreamer of lover's in the sand
he likes to go for long walks and he always holds my hand
He's a romantic kind of man

Chorus

Bridge
He doesn't have a bad bone in his body
No he never has a mean thing on his mind
And when he says he'll be somewhere he's always on time
He's too good to be true this man of mine

Chorus

Chorus

Okay SHANIANUTS!, but this song is nothing like Any Man Of Mine, from the words at least. That tells me something, this song is basically being the complete opposite of AMOM, and I think this is significant.......................

Irene: by saying how cleched the Up! lyrics are, you are supporting the whole point of this thread, when in fact your aim was to disagree with it.:p :p :p