View Full Version : Gone To Heaven
Gone To Heaven
Last time I was gone for 2-3 weeks due to extra work, I came back and found questions here asking about my decreased interaction. So this time, I'll give advanced notice for those wondering.
I'm leaving Friday Aug 11 for a couple weeks of mountain climbing in Colorado. Driving one day to Wis & join with brother and his college and high school children, then drive 2 days from there.
Will spend 2-3 days acclimatizing to the nearly 8,000 foot elevation & thin air from base at KOA campground by Gunnison, CO; then maybe more rustic park campground closer to Crested Butte near 9,000 feet. The college agers plan mountain biking on trails in Crested Butte area. We older and younger ones will be hiking & climbing high trails in preparation for a summiting by foot, of one or more 14,000 ft peaks.
Castle Peak and Conundrum Peak are in the area. And the mountain trails and passes through the Elk Mtn Range between Crested Butte and Aspen are said to be some of the most beautiful in the country for hiking and and horseback packing trips. This is the kind of place Eilleen Twain would enjoy.
Alpine spring flowers, fresh air, sunshine, scenic views, occasional residual snow fields in the couloirs, blue sky, white puffy clouds above (and below), and LOTS of exercise.
The Maroon Bells and Pyramid Peak are on the other (north) side of the range and some of the most photographic peaks in the country.
After about 5 days in Gunnison/Crested Butte area, we'll move east 60 miles and 20 north to camp by Buena Vista for a couple days and see if we can summit one of the 14'rs by the Continental Divide in the Collegiate Peaks, probably Mt Princeton or Mt Yale.
So if I don't fall off a cliff, or get bit by a rattler, see you when I return. The fires this summer mostly in the states west of Colorado, have driven many rodents out of the hills toward more populated areas. And where their food moves, so do the snakes. I hear that there's a really bad shortage of injectable anti-dote for snake bites this year. But the snakes are only in the lower elevations. So we expect to see more interesting and hopefully more distant wildlife, for my tele-photo zoom & wide angle camera lenses.
We've been planning, researching and preparing for this quite a while. No AMS, HAPE or HACE for us, thank you (high altitude symptoms of increasing severity from flu-like, to bleeding lungs to bleeding brain).
We've been very careful to avoid being like those people with too few clothes, no food and little water, who need Harrison Ford to come rescue them with his helicopter like happened a few days ago near Jackson Hole, WY. Incidentally, we were hiking at 10,000 feet in the Teton Range near Jackson Hole last year and that's how we got the 'bug' for high altitude adventure. It was like being in heaven. Similar in some ways to Justin's description in another thread here, of being at a Shania concert.
Yeah... And I’m sitting here watching this stupid computer display and wondering what on earth I’m doing here... Since I’m a nocturnal bird and it’s almost 7 a.m. and I haven’t gone to sleep yet, this is a hell of a way to enter the stage of supposed tranquility where your system reloads and regenerates. I shouldn’t have read this cause now I’m down... Happy now? http://www.shania.net/shaniaforum/smile.gif lol
Anyway, have a great time and watch those cliffs, or we wouldn’t want you to send us posts from the genuine Heaven, if you know what I mean... http://www.shania.net/shaniaforum/smile.gif
Take GOOD care,
G’Kar
Londo,
Well, if it's any consolation, the trip didn't turn out quite as heavenly as planned.
Drove all night to get from Wis to Colorado, due to grad student nephew being in a wedding party & delaying our departure.
First day there, we rode the ski lift at Mt Crested Butte to it's limit at 11,000 feet, then scrambled the remaining 1,000 feet to the top of mountain. Thin air slowed us down only a little. Our fitness preparations payed off, despite usual need for people to be "at altitude" for about 3 days to get used to low oxygen in the thin air. Oncoming thunder and lightning hurried us back down. My group did not pay attention to the gray, heavy bellies in the clouds, as I suggested. And the rain came before the 2:00 pm normal onset. We got down before the rain hit, but we were very lucky, because it started sooner nearby. A few days later, we read an article in the local paper that a bear sow, her 2 cubs and some mountain lions had been sighted around the ski hill and edge of town.
2nd day, hiked trails at altitude southeast of Crested Butte, while nephews mountain biked with rented $2200 bikes. We mis read the maps. That delayed us & we were caught in a hail storm with lightning. Had learned about places to avoid lighting at altitude. Fortunately, we found a grove of aspen and stayed in there for the half hour the storm lasted. Have pix. Very gloomy and scary. On way out, 40 foot wide stream had risen. Found a way to cross on couple poles by a cattle fence gate. While my brother was yelling instructions to my 14 yr old niece, who was not paying attention, I got distracted and not watch my feet. They slipped on the steep, wet grass beside the stream and I fell in. Nice, expensive, Goretex, waterproof, hiking boots now filled with hail-chilled water. Hardy har harr!
3rd day; moved camper and base camp from Gunnison to Cement Creek Campground just south of Crested Butte. Then hiked up to Schofield Pass and then to West Maroon Pass. Supposed to be the most beautiful photographic scenery in Central Colorado. All the fires to the west, must have seeded the clouds, 'cause it rained hard most nights, and clouds hung low this day. Great hike and preparatory exercise, but no photos. Also came around a corner in van on high road above Gothic and encountered a cluster of deer in the mists, on edge of road above a steep drop. Buck was in velvet. Gothic mountain in backdrop at that time of day, was most impressively gloomy. Large, wide, alpine valley in between. The composition was perfect for a fantastic photo. But I was busy trying to learn from our mistakes of previous days, and had hands all full of maps. Cameras took too long to dig out before deer disappeared.
4th day; went farther up Cement Creek canyon/valley with van. Failed to notice the change in color on route on one of several maps. Got onto 4 wheel drive trail without realizing it. Got past some really steep and narrow spots, but in process of avoiding some deep mud holes, hit a big rock hidden in the weeds beside the tracks, and ripped off the running/step board on one side of customized van, and nearly tipped van over. Everyone except me distraught. Went hiking and mtn biking. Mtn bikers had exhilirating trip and views up to 13,000 ft far to end of canyon several miles distant. We hikers misread maps again and just turned around after 2-3 miles on side hike and came out at preplanned time, this time beating the daily rain. (group slowly learning to accept my advice about that at least).
5th day: rented a 4 wheel drive jeep and went out the 4 wheel drive trail trying to get to the hiking trail head from (long) south side of Castle Peak. Trail way too rugged and slow for us to get very far in time available. We got only about 1/3 the way up foot approach from rough side of Castle Peak, and turned back at time planned, to avoid rain, and again, successful at least at avoiding getting caught in storm at high altitude.
6th day: relatives went to Sunday church and we moved to Buena Vista campsite for an attempt on Mt Princeton. We scouted the south west climb/hike route part way up, hoping to avoid the problems of lost time and lost trails etc from earlier hikes/climbs. A blacktop road went right to the trailhead here. The easier climb was from the East side of the mountain, but that required a four wheel drive vehicle to get close to the mountain, and we didn't have one at that time.
7th day: got up real early and were at the SW trailhead by 7:00am. As we were going in, met 2 guys coming out, gray faced. They'd tried that route the day before in a group of 5 men. 3 never came out. The two who did, had come back this morning looking for the others. We took the names of the 3 missing and kept an eye out for signs of them. Went up through a dense forest of greenery alongside of a noisy stream called Grouse Creek, which had many waterfalls. Trail very steep. After almost an hour of that, nicer trail up through aspen and pines. About an hour of that and we broke out into opening above tree line, climbing a dry wash for what seemed like forever. Very steep. Take 10 steps and stop to catch breath. Catch breath 3 or 4 times then stop for water.
An hour of that and we finally got to a high ridge almost 3,000 feet above the trailhead. College age nephews getting quite far ahead of us. Trouble finding a trail. Seemed to go over the ridge to the other side. Our side was sort of a rounded slope up to ridge. Other side was more of a cliff side. But we follow what looked like a trail over the edge a ways, climbing ever higher. Eventually, came up against some cliffs on that side of mountain and had to traverse to try to get around them. In the process, we had climbed so high we were looking down on a big horn sheep several hundred feet below, grazing on a patch of grass. They only recognize danger coming from below, not above, so this one was just kind of puzzled at us above, and did not run away. I got some good photos with zoom lense. Eventually, we encountered some 500 foot deep canyons in the cliffs above us, blocking out way to the peak ridge. We thought we could go no farther. There were a half dozen vultures circling ominously overhead.
But one of my college nephews reminds me of Scott Fischer, the powerful climber who lead climbs on Mt Everest until 1996, when destiny called his name. My 6'4", blond, & exceptionally strong nephew ranged far and wide above us, using his strength and youth to good effect. He found a faint trail back up along the extremely narrow and rugged ridge, past the canyons, cliffs and false peaks. We followed him, puffing like mad in the thin air. At 13,971 feet on a false summit, it got to be too much for my niece who just turned 14. Despite her excellent fitness from premier soccer team games and competitive swimming, and out-hiking me the first 3 days in a row, she now got tired and discouraged. I too, was more than a little scared at the potential danger from these risky peaks and narrow, rocky ridges at such great heights. We were so tired that keeping our balance with backpacks, on the big rocks, and the dizzying thin air, was difficult. And the cliffs were only a few feet away. There was no guarantee that we were on a passable trail, or that we had enough energy to make it to the summit, which we often could not see, except for occasional frightening glimpses across an almost razor thin ridge of rocks.
Fortunately, my other nephew, in his last year of graduate chiropractic school, had the class to volunteer at the start of the climb, to wait or come back down with anyone who needed or wanted to, if the rest of the party wanted to continue up. So he waited there with my niece. And my brother, I in our early to mid 50's, and our blond young 'mountain man' in his early 20's, continued on, in a kind of dumb, unwillingness to quit until it became clear we had to. Even I ignored the turn around time of 12:00 noon. We'd been climbing for well over 5 hours, and should have been on our way back down, even if the clouds had not given their early warnings yet.
From one point farther below, it looked like we would have easy going along an almost level ridge for 1/2 to 3/4 mile, up to the peak once we were past the canyons. Not true. Although the steepness abated a lot, the ruggedness of hiking up large, angular rocks made the going very difficult in most places. Although we only went up another several hundred feet in elevation, the last half mile up to the summit took almost an hour, and I almost fell numerous times.
Finally we got there. At the peak, was a semi-circle of piled rocks in a wall about 4 feet high to protect against the wind. A water proof canister was in an opening in the wall, with a roll inside from the Colorado Mountain Club, to record the names, addresses and comments of individuals who successfully summited the mountain. On the other side of the summit was an easy walking trail, leading down to the East trail head. We wished we'd taken that. People coming up from that way had described it as "a piece of cake." And the guy we met from that side was definitely not all sinew, muscle and bone like the members in my group.
But we could not go back down that way, because we had people waiting 3/4 of a mile back along the SW ridge for us, and our ride was at the bottom of that route. So we logged in, took a few quick pictures and headed back down. Shortly after we got back to rejoin the rest of our party, the thunder started. From there, we did not know for sure where the trail was, and we could not see where we had come up from below. One nephew searched along and over the ridge, the other nephew looked more straight down the slope on the non cliff side. While they were looking, strange things began to happen. We saw horizontal lightning below us, but at the edge of clouds fast approaching us. The wind picked up fiercely. It began to sprinkle. The two nephews were communicating by radio. The 6'4" blond one was trying to persuade us to come up to the ridge and go over the other side. He thought there was trail there, and it was more protected, even though higher. We were VERY reluctant to climb back up to the ridge with an approaching storm. Too tired to make that much distance and elevation before the storm got into full fury. While we were discussing this ever more urgently, the rocks began to buzz with static electricity. The nephews without a hat and with short sleeves, noticed their hair standing up straight on their arms and partly on their heads. I said we HAVE to get down, fast. We did not seem to have time to climb back up to the ridge. So we tried to get down the rounded but still steep, slope covered with large, angular rocks. With the water, the rocks were very slippery, and it seemed like the storm was getting closer faster than we were getting down. The potential for one or more of us getting hit by lighting was WAY too high. We just kind of blocked the fear out of our minds and continued to struggle downward, almost hopelessly against the elements. It had taken so long to get up there, and now with the slipping, it was taking even longer to get down, and it was too far, too much. I fell and almost broke my arm. It started snowing. Then it changed to light hail. The rubber tip came off my walking stick, trapped between two rocks, then the hard plastic threaded cover over the spiked tip came off. That sharp tip kept slipping between the rocks so that it was almost worse than no stick at all. We were tired, gasping, struggling, afraid. It was horrible. It was close to the opposite end of the spectrum from heaven.
But somehow we were lucky. We did not get hit by lightning, tho it was flying all around. My poor niece. Why did I ever get us into this mess? It was not my brother's idea to climb 14'r's. It was the last symbolic hurrah for a man past his prime (me), who had failed to accomplish his other objectives, and lacked the courage to admit it. That weakness could have gotten us all killed, despite all our preparation and excellent fitness level for our ages. After 20 minutes, the storm took a a break while we struggled downward for another 45 minutes. At about 1/4 of the way back down, we were so far from a discernable trail, that our 'mountain man' was rarely visible and able to guide us from above only by remote radio. Farther along, he saw the route options to get back to our lower trails and came down to join us. We all then had to descend a rock slide of nearly 1,000 feet elevation. He took it mostly in a glissade on the seat of his pants in about 15-20 minutes. I tried a little of that and it was too much for me. So we all came down, halting steps and slips at a time, taking almost another hour and costing much fatigue. Falling and tumbling rocks hit me a couple times, one of them bruising my rear end.
At the bottom of that, we took a rest of food and water, but still had a long way, over half the mountain to descend. Another storm rolled in and gave us a good scare, hustling us from the high grassy areas, down to the tree line. Then it was just dogged exhaustion and achy muscles, rubber knees, grinding down the rest of the way for 2-3 more hours. We were so tired and sore when we got out of there that most of us looked just plain pitiful. Dirty, wet, grimmacing at nearly every footfall of descent. Tipping this way and that on the loose footing.
We never did see any sign of the three missing men from the day before. But along the stream waterfalls, some bounding rocks barely missed my niece. My brother called out a warning. He heard someone or some large animal above us where the rocks came from. But he did not see who or what started it, only the rocks. That was another scare, more than we needed. I wondered several times on the way down, how far off track we were, and if we'd ever see our van again, or wind up like the 3 men from the day before.
When we finally did get back to the road, some lady was merrily hiking along. I asked her if she'd heard about the lost climbers from the day before. It was news to her. And she was surprised that anyone had climbed the mountain from this side. But our info fit in with what she'd seen a short while before. A group of local emergency rescue people were buzzing around in all wheel terrain vehicles looking for someone, in the lower valleys below the mountain.
Aha, you’re back! I don’t know why, but I had a certain premonition that this trip of yours will not be a walk in the park, that’s why I posted the previous message here. I’m sad to see I was right. Unfortunately it seems to happen a lot these days. Some people call me pessimistic, since if I’m not right it usually happens concerning positive things.
We had a similar encounter last year here in our mountains, which are not so high, they go up to 8,500 ft. There was a group of people that tried to climb one mountain on the difficult side and they were caught by lightning. They were 9 in the group. 3 of them died, 5 were hospitalized and only one escaped with minor injuries.
I find remarkable that you have the energy and the passion to do things like that at your age, things that a normal young person wouldn’t even think about trying. You know what they say: no pain, no gain. The key in doing things like that is to know where to stop, where it gets too dangerous, because you may never get the chance to jump back on the right side of the boat. But you live, you learn. From what I read, your group didn’t seem to have much experience in dealing with these types of situation, so I think you did remarkably well. I personally think that drawing a conclusion that this has been too much, way over the edge of your capabilities, and so you must take it easier from now on, is premature. You should think about this after a while, since right now you might be in the state of shock from what happened. I think you should give time for those extraordinary events to settle down in your mind and transform them into experience. You got into a messy situation from the beginning, but you survived and you didn’t do it based entirely on luck. The problem was that you tried to expand your limitations, but you chose an unfortunate time to do that. It happens. Although I must say that having limitations is what makes us humans and it’s a natural process to try and push them as far as we can, no matter in what direction and at what age. It would be stupid to stop doing that. It would be like acknowledging our mortality and the fact that we have received enough from our lives. I think you should feel very fortunate that you are able to do things like that. So don’t stop now.
I don’t believe that failure thing you wrote about yourself. What you think you lost on one front you will be surprised to see you’ve won on another. It’s a matter of perception, but we could talk about this some more.
How is your niece holding out and what happened to those 3 people after all?
Now concerning your question about the “troll train”, it was a group of people in an Internet Cafe or something like that that subscribed and started to post all kinds of stupidities, mocking everybody here and the topics. If you only knew what they wrote about our little talk on the other topic... Well I read them and I couldn’t stop laughing, but I suspect some people here felt really hurt by those comments and I don’t blame them. The majority of the people here ignored the trolls, with a few exceptions including myself. I tried to have a little fun by talking to them and to see who I was really talking to, what kind of people were they really. I drew some interesting conclusions about them, even if the dialog wasn’t vary polite or diplomatic. Anyway they got kicked out hours later by the moderators and I got kicked too for 3 days, probably being mistaken as one of the trolls, until I was admitted back in, thanks also to the support of some people on this board. The moderators deleted the troll messages, and all the topics that involved them were re-posted by Justin, so don’t let yourself be confused by it. It was an interesting experience though.
You should take the time to read some of the topics from the past 2 weeks, some of them are really interesting and you might find more explanation about what happened here.
Good to see you back and it’s nice talking to you again. Now I’m off to play some basketball. Hopefully I’ll win some games today since I haven’t done this for a while.
Take care,
G’Kar
This is so interesting how apparently unimportant events make you look at things under a different perspective. When I first opened the browser’s window and I downloaded this page I thought: Ha...RJ’s back, otherwise who would answer it?...Wow, is this guy insane? How on earth am I gonna read this post? It’s too long! And as I started it I read it like I was reading a good novel, when you start you don’t get up until you finish cause it’s so captivating. Then I wrote the post and left for basketball. I got to play 3 on 3 and suddenly my 2 teammates started to fight really nasty over one bad pass. Of course my whole interest for the game crashed that moment and later I started thinking if those calm and gentle people started to share punches over one bad pass and an event so insignificant got to them so much, how on earth must have been for you on that mountain. I started to finally “really realize” in my mind that the guy who went through those things is not a novel character, it’s actually someone I know, a person that I interact with and that is a part of my real universe. And then I thought how pathetic I’m looking giving all kinds of advises to people like I’m the holder of the universal truth without having not even one percent of those people’s background and experience and not having a real grip on what they were going through. It was just a thought...
Londo,
It was more than just a thought, it was thoughtful and helpful. Opened some doors for me to other possibilties to consider. Some of what you said is obviously true and adds to what I can gain from the experience. Other things you said, I'll just hold available until I can relate usefully to it. None of us knows everything. But at least some are honest enough to share and try to be helpful. That is greatly appreciated.
PS,
I don't know what happened to those 3 climbers who were lost. I've been listening to the news occasionally and checked the local papers when I could, and saw nothing. But they only do weekly papers in small towns, so it wouldn't have been in yet by time I left. Also, it's possible that not all bad news gets into some local papers due it's effect on tourism.
My post trip description was based on my initial off-the-cuff recollections. Most of it is accurate, but a few details are correctable. For instance the classic photo I missed of the deer in the mists at the edge of the road in an opening in the trees, in front of the deep, wide alpine valley before Gothic Mountain actually happened one day earlier on a scouting trip toward Schofield Pass, up to very old micro town of Gothic north of Mt Crested Butte, while my brother (van owner) was altruistically doing our laundry in town of Crested Butte.
An added point is that aside from the buzzing locusts in the lower elevations, I heard what seemed to be a different buzz on the aborted hike below Castle Peak. Sounded like a rattle snake. Kinda jangled my nerves a little.
But there were so many other beautiful things to see, hear and feel. Like beaver dams all over the place. Gorgeous clouds in an azure blue sky, vast valleys with many soul-quieting, peaceful, shades of natural, peaceful green. I shot 9 rolls of film. Lost another 5 pounds just lugging the camera gear up and down the mountains and passes. 32 inch waist pants fall off me. I changed back to 31 inch waist, and even those have gotten loose and sloppy. I think I'm gonna do some serious pigging out til I get back to a decent weight. My face is so thin it looks like a cadaver. That's another opposite I have with Shania. When her body is thin, her face still looks wonderful. The only way to get my face to look good again is to put an excess 10-20 pounds of lard on my body, along with a hint of a spare tire. I hate that.
So, you see, it wasn’t that bad after all...LOL It’s interesting that, as time passes, only the better part of the events survive the memory filter, and you will remember them with pleasure. The bad memories won’t look so bad either after a while, after the initial scare runs off, you will add them to your wisdom. I’m sure you’ll get to tell this story to your nephews’ grandkids one day with all of this cloning and genome technology that might give you a taste of immortality and maybe help you fix whatever you hate about your face... http://www.shania.net/shaniaforum/smile.gif
PS1: You didn’t say how your niece is doing, what she is saying after all this. One thing puzzles me. How come you didn’t have any direct descendents on the trip, too?
PS2: Did you read the other topics? There are some that I think would really require your help as an idea developer...
Yes, I read some of the other topics. But I was tired and didn't have anything ready to offer to the ones I saw. I didn't see all of them. Which ones were your referring to? I saw one by Deadeye concerning movie plans which has some interest for me, but is probably a bit far out of my field. One was by Longshot concerning Shania's occasional past look-ins on this site. Another was about generating a fan synthesis communication somehow that would interest Shania enough to come to this site more often. Then there were yours about seeking out mutual benefit between fan sites and commercial sites/reps for Shania.
My niece has survived the experience reasonably well. She tends to not speak up much when she is scared or overburdened. But she was animatedly telling her mom about aspects of the trip when we got back to Wisconsin a couple days ago. Each of us contributed a description of some aspect of the trip we felt strongly about. We did not tell everything. Did not want to get niece's mother scared or mad. I think my niece and nephews were being protective of potentially harmful info the same way.
Why no direct descendants on the trip? Oh boy, you had to ask. Went off to study to be a (celibate) priest at age of 14. Don't meet very many eligible young women that way. After 5 yrs in seminary, got out but then drafted into Army during Vietnam war. Don't get to meet very many women in military service in the 1960's. After that, I went to University of Michigan. Over half ot that student body was graduate students - lawyers, doctors, engineers, dentists, chemists, physicists, business etc etc. In the 1960's, 80-90% of those professions and grad students were male. So being an undergrad male there, was also not a very good place to meet young women. In fact some of the few women there had bumper stickers saying "So many men, so little time." So I was in my mid to late 20's before I finally got "into circulation." And by then, a lot of the compatible gals had already been chosen. Many of the others, I never met, since I was not exactly the most social type. Remember, I'm the one who grew up more with the dairy cows than with people. I've had some long term relationships and some involved wonderful experiences. And I would have preferred being happily married and having kids. But I've not been involved with a compatible enough person to do that todate. Some have been incredibly passionate. Others have been plenty friendly, or considerate, or intelligent. Most have been attractive. But in no case so far, have we had a mutually acceptable combination of compatibilities. Finally, I should say I've made some mistakes in assessing the potential of partners. At least one gal from the earliest years was interested in me and I didn't know it. I was attracted to her beautiful sister, and didn't even notice her. I did take her golfing once, as a friend of the family when I was on the junior college golf varsity. There was nothing in that experience to clue me in that this person would turn out to become beautiful, intelligent, sensitive and with the same values as me. She's now a teacher and married to a tall, handsome, financially secure man with a gentle nature and strong sense of humor. I've received substantial clues from reliable sources that she would've rather been married to me. And now that we've shared the loss of each of our parents (who were farming neighbors 50 yrs ago) I can see my mistake. Guess I'm a slow learner.
Well that explains a lot. I read from your previous posts about parts of your background, but I never got to put them together because I felt like I was missing a vital key. I never thought I would have the chance to speak to someone that has had such a diverse life and lived on the other side of the Atlantic. It’s interesting to see how some people who have a stable family, many sons and daughters and a secure future really feel incomplete because of the lack of notable events in their life. I guess it’s really hard to find the balance between adventure and stability and if you do that, then you might say that you’ve lived a happy life, without any regrets. But it’s never too late to try, I think. Maybe it’s because of my age, but right now I fail to see myself at the age of 60 (if I get there) sitting in a chair all day long, watching TV and reading newspapers. I don’t think there is a time in your life when you should say: ok, that’s it, I’ve done enough in this life, now I need to rest for the rest of my days. There is always something you can do, that might suite you. Maybe the times were different in the past, the horizon of the new generations is growing larger by the minute, and consequently so does the world today. I see people in their 40’s and 50’s not being able to see or understand what is going on around them, what the human society has turned into, because they were raised and formed under a different mentality and were used to a slower evolutionary pace. If you are an open-minded person, if you are able to somehow understand and assimilate what the society throws at you and even think beyond that, I believe that the world that is coming may offer you many opportunities, some of which none has even thought about yet. You may never know what you might find comfort in, even though you think that the type of fundamental comfort that you want is lost forever.
Out of curiosity, RJ, do you come only on this forum, or you interact with other people on the net? Hehe, now I have tons of questions I want to put, that’s what I get for opening the Pandora’s box. I find it amazing how that priest life that you prepared for coped with being drafted to go to Vietnam. I would have so many questions I would have to ask you about that period, since I like history a lot and that is one of my favorite periods (I stayed all night to watch a documentary on this subject, but unfortunately they cut it in two, so I’ll have to watch the next part next Sunday...). The problem is that I’m rather reluctant to ask since you might not want to talk about it, it could bring back bad memories, I don’t know and that’s why I don’t want to push it.
Now I don’t want to be accused that I don’t write anything related to the purpose of this forum, so I just realized that 1.5 hours from now it would be Shania’s birthday. It’s almost august 28. Incredible! I started the holiday on July 1st and it seems like yesterday! I have only one month left out of 3. Do you often get the feeling that the time runs faster the older you get?
Take care,
G'Kar
Yes, as time remaining in my life grows shorter, it seems to go faster. When I was a kid, everything took FOREVER. I couldn't wait to grow up and get the benefits of being bigger, stronger, more respected, having more money, etc.
No, actually, there was less conflict between the religious life vs the military than there was between farming and military. Both the religious and military were very strictly organized, some call it discipline. Of course, saving souls and killing bodies are close to opposites, but in minor seminary, I was not very close yet to saving souls. And in the military, I was not very close to killing bodies. I was sent to Europe, not Vietnam. My older brother had already been to Vietnam, and they don't send two members of the same family to a combat zone, usually unless it's a world war or at least an officially declared war - which Vietnam was not. As it turns out, my bro was in Vietnam in the early 60's, before things heated up. So he lived the life of Reilly there, having his own apartment and a local servant to take care of everything. He bought lots of inexpensive sound equipment and sent it home, some of which he still uses. He did get shot at one time only, when flying high in a helicopter over the Mekong Delta. That's it.
The contrast between farming and the military, is that in farming, a person is independent, and makes their own decision and suffers their own consequences. Their life runs on the basis of practical common sense. The military is almost perfectly the opposite. Or at least it was when I was in it. A bunch of dumb, nearly illiterate drill sergeants order you around about things they don't even understand consistently themselves. Hurry up and wait. Do what you're told and don't ask questions. Your duty is to do or die, not ask why. In basic training they deliberately make things as illogical and unpleasant as they can. The theory at the time was A) to get you to follow orders no matter what - cause in combat that's the best way to win and stay alive; B) get us used to stressful, confusing situations so we'd develop instinctive teamwork and rely on each other to survive. Most of that is nonsense as I've since learned in my psychological training, and the military has discarded most of it as well.
Lessee now, what else did you ask? Oh, do I opine elsewhere as much as here? Nope, this is it, mostly. You may wonder why. It's cause despite the occasional opposites that I enjoy citing, Eileen Regina Shania Edwards Twain Lange has a childhood background that parallels mine in an amazing number of unique ways. And because of her goals, values, contributions, I feel completely at home here, among her fans.
One final point, before I go. Tho your reflections about opportunities and potential at any stage in life are well noted, when you get to be my age, you might have a slightly greater affection for relaxation, and a supportive role - letting others with talent and energy take the more active roles. I have tons of ideas. A whole drawer full of accumulated bright ideas almost all of my own creation. But bringing them to fruition requires more resources than I possess. I no longer care to take the whole world on my shoulders on even one topic. Too many people don't care. Too many fight change even if for the good. I am not fond of combat. I am not good at persuasion. And I'm not real confident of wishful thinking or mysticism. What's left is more than nothing, but sometimes seems slim. It depends on my mood and energy level. I can only hope that someday, my mood, energy and an opportunity all coincide.
Not long ago you praised me for my thoroughness. To give you an example that you were wrong, I can tell you that only yesterday I discovered some interviews that Shania gave on shania.org. (If Longshot reads this he would shoot me through the computer modem if he could) I sometimes try to thorough, but I fail miserably. I’ve always wondered what’s worse: to see a car coming your way as you are crossing the street and not to be able to think and act quick enough to avoid it, or to be so distracted not notice the car coming and hitting you.
Speaking of Shania, did you know, as a curiosity, that the name REGINA is the exact Romanian translation for...QUEEN?
Anyway, I read some of those interviews and some of them left me really perplex. I still can’t believe how many opinions we share. I had certain opinions that none of the people I talk to here share or understand, so sometimes I thought maybe there is something wrong with me. It is incredible to notice that someone overseas shares the same problems as you do. It was like I wrote some parts of those interviews. I must confess I didn’t read many of her interviews, since the information that gets here is petty filtered. It is so easy for me to understand what she thinks.
So basically I’m in the same situation as you are. I talk to people through mail, but I don’t think I would fit anywhere else anymore, like message boards and things like that. I can’t dedicate my time to some other locations and still look at this site with the same eyes. I guess this has become a sort of net-family for me. I really like the diversity of styles, opinions, visions and, of course, people. Compared to other boards I visited briefly, this one I think has a certain soul of its own.
Take care,
G’Kar
Yep, my 5 yrs of latin and root words let me know the meaning of rex, regis and regina.
I'd like to go & see some of those interviews you mentioned on Shania.org, when I get some time. Have to get ready for, then take care of outstate relatives visiting for week or two, first.
Ha, ha! You sound exactly like some kind of mob leader who had just learned there is a contract on his head and he’s preparing to deal with the unwanted guests. lol
I sincerely hope your relatives don’t read this. http://www.shania.net/shaniaforum/smile.gif
Wow, that's a terrible thing to say about my widowed mom. She's nearly helpless. But on second thought, she's not completely toothless, so there may be a little truth to what you say, if I was inclined to search for a needle in a haystack.
Lol... Well a pair of teeth and a lot of wisdom make a lethal combination. She should definitely not be underestimated.
I hope you have a great time. Tell her about the adventure in the mountains. I’m sure she would be thrilled and also encourage you on challenging the lightning a lot more often. http://www.shania.net/shaniaforum/wink.gif
It’s just me and my tasteless jokes...
This is a postscript to the report about mountain climbing, that this thread was about, before it got so far afield. And I've been asked to share it.
Human nature is interesting. After the remarkable mountain climbing experience with my relatives, each member of the team had their own recollections. The experience was certainly unforgettable, if nearly tragic. But at times during the actual event, we experienced information overload and uncertain decisions. Our individual minds and personalities struggled to make sense out of that during the days that followed. We each went our separate ways and developed our own conclusions. My emails with my brother found us not only discussing, but eventually debating our overall conclusions, almost to the point of argument, criticism and complaint. This is most unusual, because my brother and I are about as compatible as two people can be, and we're both gentle, respectful, experienced and open-minded.
Catharsis happened a couple wks ago. I called my brother's home to talk to my tall nephew about some things I'd found on topo maps that explained his "awesome" views during his mountain biking one day. I was also going to ask him about the mountainside of rocks buzzing with electricity from the storm during our big climb. Well, he wasn't home. Off to the start of school year in college, and maybe showing his girlfriend his pictures of the adventure. My brother answered the phone. He'd just got home from work and saw the 180 photos I'd sent of our trip and climbs. My niece got on another extension. And as we talked a bit, we stumbled into what amounted to a debriefing. Turns out each of us had key pieces of information that the others did not, or had forgotten. So each of our individual conclusions were partly inaccurate.
By comparing notes, we made some remarkable discoveries. The field of rocks, buzzing like a transformer with thousands of volts of electricity, was most likely above us on the slope, not below. In the chaos and thin oxygen, we were mostly unaware of this. We were frantically yelling and rushing to decide whether to go up to the ridge and safety on the other cliff side as my nephew was exhorting, or to go down our own steep, rocky side, to get out of the storm.
There was a wide range of abilities and resourcefulness in our group. The younger ones were tremendously physically fit. My brother is a very experienced outdoorsman. I had a fair amount of knowledge from my research, about basic mountaineering, and also training in electricity. No one person, not even any two of us had all the info and ability to get us out of this safely.
Despite divergent opinions, we went down, not up (except my nephew who was already protected beyond the ridge). Now we know that if our lower group had gone up instead of down, we'd have gone right into the electrical field, with likely disastrous rsults.
A further clue to this came from my niece, just turned 14. During our phone call, she reminded us of something I did not have time to pay attention to while we were hit by the storm at nearly 14,000 feet. She was a little above most of us in the group, and she looked up toward the ridge where my nephew was trying to yell information down to us over the din of the wind howling through the rocks. When she lifted her face upslope (and skyward), electricity started coursing through her wire frame glasses and shocked her face. She cried out "Ooh! Dad! My glasses are hurting me!" At the time, I didn't know for sure what she was talking about, nor did we have time to pay further attention to it. We only knew we had to get out of there. Turns out, she had cringed in the alarming discomfort. As she did so, she lowered her head and face. The shock stopped. She had on a rain coat with hood up, and quickly lowering her head placed the hood as an insulating barrier between her and the electricity in the thunderhead, and stopped the shock. After that, she kept her eyes on the ground for a long time, til the storm was past. If she had not cringed, nor had her wits about her enough to figure out to keep her head down, the thousands of volts of static electricity in that thunderhead would have continued to grow along the path of least resistance toward the ground, through my niece's metal frame glasses, and through her body, turning her into a lightning bolt.
When I heard her say this during our phone call, it took my breath away, and I called out her name and then was speechless. I'd just completed a college course in electrical safety and this topic was covered. I understood the alarming details more clearly than she or my brother. Well, given her age, and the tone in my voice, she wondered if she was being criticized again. Not at all. She was just scaring the daylights out of me and I was concerned about her. I just didn't have the presence of mind to say so then. But she seemed to kind of figure that out anyway. I asked my brother if he had showed her a copy of the story I'd posted here (now a couple weeks ago) and emailed to him. My niece chimed in lively, before he could respond, that she had read it here on the internet already anyway; because I had showed her this website just before we left their Wisconsin home for the Colorado trip.
Well, after all these discoveries; we each had a better understanding of the event and each other's views, and appreciation of our safe return. And we were in almost complete agreement again, and emotionally back together "as thick as thieves" (had we stolen life back from somewhere?) We said we could never forget such an experience. We agreed that it was a heck of an achievement to stick together as a group, pull together, use our various abilities and resources when critically needed, succeed at overcoming such big obstancles, and return safely. We also agreed we had considerably good luck. And some of us wonder where in heaven we should be directing our appreciation.
Now fine and dandy, but what does all this have to do with Shania Twain, one could ask. I dunno. But if you think about it, are there not some aspects in both stories, of dizzying heights, scary risks, working together, overcoming obstacles, taking on big challenges, trying something most wouldn't, and succeeding, when others have failed, etc.? One thing still different tho; they say success has a thousand fathers. But no one has told me yet how many uncles it has.
Well, now maybe I can put this topic to it's final resting place, and take a long peaceful rest from storytelling.
Sorry I’m posting so late, I really wanted to do that sooner, since I wanted to confirm that I was one of the people that asked you to continue this thread. This confirmation is meant to give a palpable proof that there is an interest in this, just in case someone on a bad day was wondering about it.
Now about the trip. In situations like these it’s clear that it’s extremely dangerous to carry any conductive material and hold it in contact with the atmosphere, to say the least. I know some people who went on a trip like that and, being caught by a potentially developing storm, had to abandon their backpacks because they had metal bars in them. I never would have thought about the influence on some glasses, but now that you’ve mentioned it makes perfect sense. There is something interesting here. As the glasses started to get charged, that’s probably when her eyes started to hurt, so in fact they weren’t at their full potential when she cringed. I don’t know exactly, but the eyes are a very sensitive part of the body, much more sensitive than others. So they served as an early warning about what might have happened and measures were taken in time. I don’t want to think what would’ve happened if she had some other conductive object with her, in an outside pocket, for example. She wouldn’t have been aware of the danger until too late. Now I was thinking as an option she could’ve removed the glasses, but there was a danger to that too. If she would’ve put them into a pocket the danger would’ve been smaller, but if she would’ve thrown them out on the grass, that could’ve been suicide, since they were then the connection between the high potential in the atmosphere and the ground, they would’ve been the perfect lightning bolt. And with the probably wet grass around them any lightning would’ve propagated instantly and a quite large area around that point would’ve been seriously affected. Although I think it would’ve been hard to remove the glasses in those particular moments, considering they were actually discharging through her body, which caused the pain in the first place. She was lucky. Very lucky.
I’ve always believed that decisive situations are the most important events that build a character. I for one can say I’ve missed a lot of good opportunities to do that. There is still time, but much was lost too. I agree with you that the most important thing out of this is that you all managed to land safely on your feet. Decisive, even traumatic things can have either a positive or a negative effect on a group relationship because they appeal to the most fundamental characteristics of the members of the group. If they realize they don’t fit on those fundamental bases, their relationships will not be as well defined and connected as they were or as they seemed to be. I’m glad you don’t fit in these categories and in my opinion from now on, that the actual event is over, all of you will have far more to gain then to loose from this experience, both as individuals and as a group.
As for your peaceful rest from storytelling, it’s a very deserved one... until the next story. We won’t let you retire that easily, don’t you worry about that! http://www.shania.net/shaniaforum/wink.gif
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