Don't, Shania's best yet! [Archive]

kipperkat

01-20-2005, 11:52pm

I saw the video "Don't" video for the first time on line tonight here and was extremely impressed by such a strikingly beautiful and inspired video. What an incredible location, the clothes, the white horse and of course Shania dressed up looking as gorgeous as possible. I love her dresses in this video. Absolutely everything falls into place in this video. Wow! Shania has come up with a song and a video that are, IMO, by far the best she's ever done. Nothing else has come close to this. I like the whole COO album but was not crazy about Up! to be perfectly honest. I knew she was capable of excellance and here it is. I really am impressed by the honesty and huge amount of emotion she has put into this. I hope she continues to go in this direction. This is Shania at her very best!!! I also heard "I ain't no quitter" this week and also really liked that too. Again more heart and soul in this one too plus a sense of fun and lightheartedness. Bravo Shania for your best work yet. I can't wait for the next release!!!

kipperkat

01-21-2005, 12:01am

I don't know why I put this here. I didn't mean to but I quess they are a team and he deserves just as much credit in his own way. Although he's not up front I'm sure he's very much behind the scenes. I hope these two continue down this new path. I love it. Best work to date, no comparison in my mind. I think there is even bigger and better music to come. More honest, more emotional, more real. Again, Bravo!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kristian

01-21-2005, 12:12am

I love the song, video, Shania, lyrics, Shania (again) and so on :p

CDFan

01-21-2005, 2:03am

Great song, video isn't that good as the others though.

GorToma

01-21-2005, 2:44am

great song, wonderful video - :love:

Shaniabomber99

01-21-2005, 2:51am

Great song and Great video...Shania does it again!!! HOW DOES SHE DO IT!!!!:) and of course Mutt and Shania pulled of another great song with great music..HOW DO THEY DO IT!!!! :)

Carley

FinnFreak

01-21-2005, 3:33am

Redpower1456

01-21-2005, 12:27pm

I am very impressed with the "Don't" video. Absolutely lovely. Great job Shania!

Eric.

ka-ching

01-21-2005, 12:32pm

Glad you all like it so much!! I absolutely love the song and video too :D

Roger

01-21-2005, 2:29pm

I am very impressed with the "Don't" video. Absolutely lovely. Great job Shania!

Eric.

Hey Eric! Great to see you here!

I have sent you an email.

Roger

Troll

01-21-2005, 2:38pm

Awesome song and video

Burch

01-21-2005, 3:12pm

Love it!

iluvtheoc

01-22-2005, 10:43am

yeah i saw it its reallly good i luv the song too

Shaniabomber99

01-22-2005, 10:51am

Don't rocks :)

Carley

mnemShania

01-23-2005, 7:06am

Though Don't isn't my favourite by Shania (I don't really have one), I agree that this song is amazing! It struck me as soon as I heard it and it's catchy! The video is also impressive. The dress and horse and setting, as you said, are perfect. You can also tell that it is heartfelt. I also found that compared to Come on Over, Up! was a little disappointing because it was more poppy, though there are great songs on it too. I agree that I Ain't No Quitter is also good. I noticed that it sounds a lot like songs from The Woman in Me. It's got that really country sound which she seemed to have lost a little in Up!. I think she did well on all three extra unreleased songs on GH.

eilleen333

01-31-2005, 6:46am

I think Don't is one of het best songs. Great lyrics (as always). I really like horses, and I hoped for a clip with a horse, and I got what I asked for! One of the most beautiful horses (an Andalusian horse) in a beautiful landscape, with a beautiful song.... Can't get any better!

Shania'sSweetie

01-31-2005, 9:28am

One of the most beautiful horses (an Andalusian horse) in a beautiful landscape, with a beautiful song.... Can't get any better!

Don't forget, the most beautiful woman ever! :D :kiss: :love:

Paul

01-31-2005, 12:14pm

For UK fans (maybe some Europeans) they are starting to show the video on the Hits channel. I haven't seen it played yet but it is available for selection!

Paul:)

Troll

01-31-2005, 2:13pm

Don't forget, the most beautiful woman ever! :D :kiss: :love:

Yep. :D :]

ShaniaTwainUP!

02-05-2005, 8:07pm

That video is so.... great,pretty, beautiful ect. is such amazing video. i watch it on cmt. and ect. Great song but really sad. i was touched by it.

ShaniaKoukla

02-15-2005, 9:59am

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree, I am not a big fan of the Don't video, it reminds me of Baywatch for some reason, wonder why :uhh: I'd have to say its one of my least faves of all time.

jen

02-15-2005, 2:51pm

WELL IF SO MANY PEOPLE LIKE THE VIDEO then why isn't it on CMT yet and already down on GAC, if u like it HELP support it!!!!

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LAUNCH(yahoo):TOP 100
http://launch.yahoo.com/ar-267431-videos--Shania-Twain ....click on "Don't" & then while its playing, rate it.

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http://launch.yahoo.com/musicvideos/genrehub.asp?genreID=7318640 ....click on "Don't" & then while it's playing, rate it.

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ObsessiveStalke

02-15-2005, 10:18pm

I think Don't is probably her most emotional video. I don't recall her crying in any of the others but please correct me if i'm wrong.

jen

02-16-2005, 12:52am

I think Don't is probably her most emotional video. I don't recall her crying in any of the others but please correct me if i'm wrong.

I don't think she has cried in another video but she always shows great emotion in her videos, part of the reason why she would make a great actress. In "Home ain't where the heart is anymore" it seems like she nearly cries.....another great video!

02-16-2005, 10:13am

Saw and heard the video for the first time yesterday.

Visually, it's very aesthetically pleasing. Agree the horse and the dress were wonderful, except for one scene, late in the sequence, of the dress over the horse's rump. Saw a 2nd possible flaw in the video for a couple very brief moments, probably the same thing that caused ShaniaKoukla to mention Baywatch. But different people have different taste limits. Depends on the location and culture. Probably fine for many. The zooming, panning and transition fades are a bit tricky as to speed and suddenness at times. But overall very impressive.

I didn't notice crying or tears, but she did seem choked up. I definitely did notice the sadness. This is the first I remember seeing such depths of it, except for some parts of Home Ain't Where His Heart Is. Tho I relate naturally as a pisces, to moods including melancholy; this song caused me some worry. She writes about her experiences in life. I could just hear the exasperation and fear of a spouse facing a wall in communication or understanding with her partner. I hope that's something she picked up from things she's seen or heard external to her own family. I want them to be happy forever. But I've never known a couple who didn't have some problems at times.

jen

02-16-2005, 10:34am

I didn't notice crying or tears, but she did seem choked up. I definitely did notice the sadness. There definately was tears, but if you see it online it is harder to see that, it looks more like a pimple.LOL If you watch the video on tv you can see tears in her eyes in one scene and the next time they show her the tear is rolling down her right cheek.......this can all be seen towards the end of the song. I think it was also mentioned on CMT when they showed some behind the scene footage that Shania was surprised that she got emotional during the filming.

I am sure Shania is happy though, when I hear hear certain songs, I too tend to cry.....that is why music is great for us, it brings out emotions:)

FinnFreak

02-17-2005, 6:58am

Saw and heard the video for the first time yesterday.
:)

I saw it again this morning, just before heading off to the office - and I looked at it with a more judging eye than before... so that I could throw in my two cents in too...

With nearly every artist, whose work I follow, I usually like the most recent work - as I have a tendency of going through their work in a chronological order, to see how the approach progresses... reactions to previous albums... stuff like that...

When the news came out about the Greatest Hits offering 3 new songs, the guessing began, and to me "Don't" was the one I was waiting for the most: something a bit different than before & perhaps hinting of things to come...

The video's image itself is gorgeous: a classic setup with one of the most beautiful women in the world - in a building of stone, an image of strength and stability, yet cold... with candles trying in vain to offer warmth and light against the shadows... a horse, the means of carrying her through the endless spinose Agave of problems, a hostile environment, on the way through time... and without the horse - she's stuck there, and going nowhere... - she's wearing beautiful dresses, which again brings truth to the saying: "it's not the dress that makes the lady, but the lady who makes the dress"... in years to come, this video will be admired by millions who all will be breathless with the timeless statement of bold femininity... it's like going through a series of old paintings where the artist has with each brushstroke captivated the beauty on the canvas... - but this is a camera... and that woman is real, and clearly proud of who she is, both in mind and form.

The lyrics are a cry for help towards the other party in this relationship, and those words ring true in every way - anyone who has ever been in a relationship has had their ups and downs - so, this is a song for those who have sometimes witnessed the "worse", or had doubts if the relationship would last... "Don't give up on us" is the message, in all it's simplicity... no fancy wordings, nothing else between the lines... a cliché perhaps, but one that goes straight to the target...

I consider this song a direct response towards the critics during the last tour, who continuously moaned about the lack of substance in Shania's work, how the songs are fun - yet superficial, without real emotions... as fans, we knew this not to be the case, as we have the time to go through the lyrics and ponder on them... and decide on our own, what it's all about...

So there: what is "Don't", if not one of the most honest, straightforward, emotional songs written about a relationship in distress..? - and even offers some hope in the words: "We can do it! We'll get through it!" ...as our heroine rides on her horse into the distance...

...who can guess that I like what I'm seeing and hearing..?

John - ;)

Shania's4life!!

02-17-2005, 7:19am

:)

I saw it again this morning, just before heading off to the office - and I looked at it with a more judging eye than before... so that I could throw in my two cents in too...

With nearly every artist, whose work I follow, I usually like the most recent work - as I have a tendency of going through their work in a chronological order, to see how the approach progresses... reactions to previous albums... stuff like that...

When the news came out about the Greatest Hits offering 3 new songs, the guessing began, and to me "Don't" was the one I was waiting for the most: something a bit different than before & perhaps hinting of things to come...

The video's image itself is gorgeous: a classic setup with one of the most beautiful women in the world - in a building of stone, an image of strength and stability, yet cold... with candles trying in vain to offer warmth and light against the shadows... a horse, the means of carrying her through the endless spinose Agave of problems, a hostile environment, on the way through time... and without the horse - she's stuck there, and going nowhere... - she's wearing beautiful dresses, which again brings truth to the saying: "it's not the dress that makes the lady, but the lady who makes the dress"... in years to come, this video will be admired by millions who all will be breathless with the timeless statement of bold femininity... it's like going through a series of old paintings where the artist has with each brushstroke captivated the beauty on the canvas... - but this is a camera... and that woman is real, and clearly proud of who she is, both in mind and form.

The lyrics are a cry for help towards the other party in this relationship, and those words ring true in every way - anyone who has ever been in a relationship has had their ups and downs - so, this is a song for those who have sometimes witnessed the "worse", or had doubts if the relationship would last... "Don't give up on us" is the message, in all it's simplicity... no fancy wordings, nothing else between the lines... a cliché perhaps, but one that goes straight to the target...

I consider this song a direct response towards the critics during the last tour, who continuously moaned about the lack of substance in Shania's work, how the songs are fun - yet superficial, without real emotions... as fans, we knew this not to be the case, as we have the time to go through the lyrics and ponder on them... and decide on our own, what it's all about...

So there: what is "Don't", if not one of the most honest, straightforward, emotional songs written about a relationship in distress..? - and even offers some hope in the words: "We can do it! We'll get through it!" ...as our heroine rides on her horse into the distance...

...who can guess that I like what I'm seeing and hearing..?

John - ;)

If only all critics out there would think like you! :p
Too bad most of them are too close-minded to analyse Shania's songs or video's properly and just pass them off as "shallow" :rolleyes:
....although if anything is "shallow" it is the minds of the people who just don't "get" or refuse to acknowledge Shania's work and the meaning behind her songs!

There truly is something there....Shania is an amazing artist, 80+ Million fans don't lie! :D
Critics just need to look a little "deeper"....something which many of them are never willing to do! ;)

EilleenTwain88

02-17-2005, 7:49am

The critics think too "smart" and complicated to hear the message in her songs... yet in even her most cheerful songs there is some twist of faith and in the emotional songs there is some witty remark of life. Somehow it is rather sad, how these people cannot just take in something so simple. Or just enjoy themselves without analyzing and trying to find something clever to say.

Since I haven't been able to attend any of her concerts myself (yet), I have been following the articles about her performances with quite a amazement... There goes the same thing.

In Finland she got some journalists to say that the music was too perfect (they didn't accuse her for lyp-synching though), but what does that mean? These people go to concerts to listen to mistakes and something that goes wrong? And are disappointed if her and her musicians are too professional for that?!? Come on; that is quite narrow minded, eh? :eek:

At CMA she once again got people to say that she lyp-synched, even though it was obvious that that "gig" didn't even go the way it was planned... So she would record something WRONG beforehand just to lyp-synch to that...? Come on, that is ridiculous? :rolleyes:

In the Super Bowl she lyp-synched, but come on who's there to listen her singing?!? Except critics of course. At least she didn't tit-synch like Janet Jackson... eh? :shocked:

These people won't be satisfied whatever she does. So she has focused on doing things to please her fans instead, and is in quite right path if you ask me. :D

Roger

02-17-2005, 9:29am

Nice appreciation of the video, John. I don't disagree. I find Don't pleasant to listen to but a bit bland. Somehow the chorus should have been more dramatic. :dunno:

mama twain

02-17-2005, 9:47am

FinnFreak

02-17-2005, 9:48am

"...I looked at it with a more judging eye than before..."
:huh: ...am I really getting away with this..?!? :biglaugh:

Nice appreciation of the video, John. I don't disagree. I find Don't pleasant to listen to but a bit bland. Somehow the chorus should have been more dramatic. :dunno:
hmm... possibly - had the story a happy dramatic ending... this one just hangs there & one could imagine a text appearing:

to be continued...

...also, no remixes on the single this time around (at least so far): I guess Shania & Mutt respect the results to the point they felt the song shouldn't be tampered with...

...and: I agree..! :D:up:

John - :)

Roger

02-17-2005, 10:46am

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree, I am not a big fan of the Don't video, it reminds me of Baywatch for some reason, wonder why :uhh: I'd have to say its one of my least faves of all time.

Yeah, my wife hasn't seen this video but if she does, I know what she will say: "Does she have to have her breasts hanging out like that?!" Well, her breasts are beautiful as is everything else in the video but there is no doubt we can't be neutral about breasts. Like it or not, they are a sexual trigger for the male of the species. So I actually find them distracting (but I'm not complaining! :funny: )

FinnFreak

02-17-2005, 11:11am

02-17-2005, 12:31pm

:funny:

heh, here's what my wife told me a minute ago, when I asked her about... :uhh: you know... :p

- "It doesn't bother me - should it..?!? - If a woman has a great figure, why shouldn't she wear a dress that compliments it..?" :really:

:)

:]:up: - ...that's my girl..!!!

John - :D
Yes, I have imagined a similar cultural appreciation (? European or cosmopolitan). And I think that may be where Shania's coming from a bit, on that aspect. But I'm aware there are also many with a more inhibited view or preference. If they choose to just stay away, I suppose that'd be fine. But some of them will want to impose their standards or cluck.

02-17-2005, 12:46pm

:)
I saw it again this morning, just before heading off to the office - and I looked at it with a more judging eye than before...
...,
John - ;)
Why not? Judging is the spice of life. It can be the glue that holds us together, or the food for growth, not just a filter that that separates, discriminates or divides.

:huh: ...am I really getting away with this..?!? :biglaugh:
John - :)
Not sure I understand you fully there. But I don't see how you could not be appreciated for such an artistic and deep impression. I loved your descriptive interpretation. You've developed, elaborated and embellished impressions, only a few of which were beginning to glimmer into first light for me in the short time I've had to think about it so far.

The video itself has a very rich tapestry, and can evoke many reactions and reflections. A lot can be felt and shared about the content on the surface alone. Even more can be felt between the lines and below the surface. The deeper one goes, the more subjective it becomes, the more personal, and perhaps the less likely to be shared.

In an interview, Shania spoke about the importance of video in her music, and the visual memory they create for a song when it's heard again over the passage of time.

This is a great video. It will generate a lot of memorable feelings. Tho it's very depth and complexity also create room for inconsistencies and critics, most of those will probably erode away in time, leaving only the beauty of the original artistic sculpture.

Roger

02-17-2005, 1:12pm

Actually I would like to offer a defence of Shania's showing lots of cleavage, other than just liking to ogle her. This song and this video are unlike other Shania fare. Usually Shania is being assertive, strong and independent. Here she is exposing her vulnerability (which in itself betrays a certain confidence on her part). Visually she appears much more vulnerable in a dresses that are pretty or elegant than for example dressed as a cowboy. Since the setting is Mexican, a senorita type of dress which shows generous cleavage is appropriate. In spite of her bouncing bosom Shania has a slight build. She has a prettiness and a femininity that a lot of other women lack. The outfits Shania wears in this video emphasize this daintiness and hence her vulnerability.

02-17-2005, 1:31pm

:)
...,
The video's image itself is gorgeous: a classic setup with one of the most beautiful women in the world - in a building of stone, an image of strength and stability, yet cold... with candles trying in vain to offer warmth and light against the shadows... a horse, the means of carrying her through the endless spinose Agave of problems, a hostile environment, on the way through time... and without the horse - she's stuck there, and going nowhere... - she's wearing beautiful dresses, which again brings truth to the saying: "it's not the dress that makes the lady, but the lady who makes the dress"... in years to come, this video will be admired by millions who all will be breathless with the timeless statement of bold femininity... it's like going through a series of old paintings where the artist has with each brushstroke captivated the beauty on the canvas... - but this is a camera... and that woman is real, and clearly proud of who she is, both in mind and form.
...,
John - ;)
That's a lovely paragraph. Thanks for creating and sharing.

It sounds like I've not seen the video yet the same way you and others have. There is mention of seeing it on TV or in good size and detail. I only followed the link someone posted here, to CMT website. My Windows Media Player opened up as rather small window, maybe 3 inches square. So I'm missing the details some of you have said is there, like a teardrop running down her cheek. She'd need her eye to fall out before I could see it on my elderly PC and software.

I agree the video is visually gorgeous & a classic setup. But I don't remember what I saw first any more. I've only seen it once. I'll have to go back and watch it again. I remember a building, could be stone, with classic but somewhat decorative arches bending down to pillars and silhouetted in light. Yes, a woman in a dress on a horse; all three classically beautiful. I also remember several different settings, and different dresses. Off the top of my head, she was in at least 3 different settings. The building, riding the horse thru the field, then walking thru the field. What were those green plants in rows? They looked like pineapple but too tall. Also looked like banana trees but too short. Sugar cane is more vertical and narrow I think.

The most memorable visual thing I remember noticing so far is the noble, flowing, deep red, renaissance dress, both contrasting and harmonizing with the graceful equine beauty of the almost white horse. Seems like there was enough off-white in the horse, to highlight the flowing, muscular shape of the horse.

Admittedly of a different generation that you folks in your late 30's or 40's, I have a different feeling about Shania herself. It is not that of an amorous male. It is that of a parent or uncle, who wants to protect, support and be proud. Yes she is beautiful. But that is subjective and on the surface. What I see is the warmth and likeability of the little girl who developed to the best of her ability, and tho now mature and famous, remains as human and down to earth as she ever was. She reinforces that periodically. In one of those interviews on CMT, she said she was never pageant material. She had gaps between her teeth etc., and never felt that she was that beautiful, physically.

As far as I'm concerned, that realism is the kind of substance that creates value, and adds to the charisma.

ShaniaFan87

02-17-2005, 1:36pm

02-17-2005, 1:41pm

I like the song and video but both are not my favorite. The video aggravates me for some reason.. Shania is gorgeous and the song is alright but there is something about the video that makes me cringe. lol! I must be the only Shania fan in the whole world who thinks like this. I guess I just prefer most of her upbeat videos/songs rather than the slower ones.
Well, I enjoy her upbeat songs probably more than the slower ones. I like listening to them more often. But as a pisces, I can at times dive into the melancholy deeper than most, and not come up for a long time. So for quantity, I like the excitement. But for depth, I like the sombreness.

02-17-2005, 7:02pm

:)
...,
With nearly every artist, whose work I follow, I usually like the most recent work - as I have a tendency of going through their work in a chronological order, to see how the approach progresses... reactions to previous albums... stuff like that...
...,
So there: what is "Don't", if not one of the most honest, straightforward, emotional songs written about a relationship in distress..? - and even offers some hope in the words: "We can do it! We'll get through it!" ...as our heroine rides on her horse into the distance...
John - ;)
Though Don't isn't my favourite by Shania (I don't really have one), I agree that this song is amazing! It struck me as soon as I heard it and it's catchy! The video is also impressive. The dress and horse and setting, as you said, are perfect. You can also tell that it is heartfelt. I also found that compared to Come on Over, Up! was a little disappointing because it was more poppy, though there are great songs on it too. I agree that I Ain't No Quitter is also good. I noticed that it sounds a lot like songs from The Woman in Me. It's got that really country sound which she seemed to have lost a little in Up!. I think she did well on all three extra unreleased songs on GH.

For at least 2-3 years, I didn't feel I could accurately or fairly compare Shania's songs or videos, along a spectrum of quality, or even an ordering of what I liked best. I notice too many details and read so much between the lines, it becomes impossible to understand everything. But that limitation of view, a forest thru the trees effect, was finally overcome when Forever And For Always came out, and it became my favorite.

So I went back today to see the Don't video again, and then the FAFA video - the version on the beach, not the Chicago outdoors concert. I was at the latter in person, but not at the former. I was surprised by how much better I liked FAFA. I also then watched PF2. Again, I was surprised that I liked it better than Don't. The viewing for all 3 was thru CMT's videos and my Windows Media Player, so the source and display equipment 'seemed' to be the same.

But in truth, some things were not the same. One is the passage of time, repetition, and the storing of audio-video information in my synapses, along with their associated feelings. Reliable research indicates that if we watch other people doing something multiple times, it develops "mirror neurons" in our brain and we begin to develop feelings as if we've done the same thing we've watched. I think this helps explain why we react more strongly to familiar songs we've heard many times before, than to songs we are hearing for the first time.

I remember my first reaction to PF2. I thought it was nice, and noticed the best parts. But there were other things too new or different for me to absorb, understand and relate to. It's sort of like the first time I tried pizza back in the early 1960's. It was interesting but puzzling. Some parts of it were pretty and tasty. The pepperoni was more spicy than I was used to or liked. The temperature at least at the start was so hot it burned my mouth. All I noticed were details and pieces of the whole. Only with the passage of time, did I come to a fuller understanding and appreciation that I now know as pizza. And I relish it. Yet it still has it's shorcomings for me, putting an unfamiliar layer of lard around my middle.

Another thing that is not the same in my comparison of Dont, FAFA and PF2. It's probably natural to enjoy fun and excitement more than we enjoy sadness and sorrow. I think it's probably harder to create the same level of appreciation for emotional discomfort, even commercially, let alone artistically.

These are but some of the reasons that 'Don't' may grow in appreciation as time goes by, for many even tho not for all.

Shania's4life!!

02-17-2005, 8:44pm

It's hard to judge a video's on the CMT site considering how lame the quality is! :funny:

Over here in the UK, when Don't! first started getting plays on The Hits they had one of those "new video's" mini adverts that play every hour or so, and when I first saw it I was like,
.....:shocked: My GOD Shania stands out so well amongst the mass sea of mediocrecy...this is why Don't! deserves to be a hit, not only is the song amazing but Shania is one of the few artists left who are actually making quality videos that actually catch your eye and not your Z's! ;)

Butters

02-18-2005, 2:22am

I love the song :)

Shania looks very pretty in the video; her hair really looks good.

The breast shots were uncalled for. Nothing is wrong with the dresses per say and for her to be showing the amount of cleavage is fine, but she takes it way too far by making sure her breasts are flying out of her dress practically while riding her horse. That was not necessary, and it makes an otherwise lovely video a turn-off to me personally.

She does not need to do shots like that. She is way too talented for that.

FinnFreak

02-18-2005, 4:54am

The breast shots were uncalled for. Nothing is wrong with the dresses per say and for her to be showing the amount of cleavage is fine, but she takes it way too far by making sure her breasts are flying out of her dress practically while riding her horse. That was not necessary, and it makes an otherwise lovely video a turn-off to me personally.

She does not need to do shots like that. She is way too talented for that.

:shocked: - I've seen the video on digital TV & still I'm not seeing the same..?!? :really:

This is an opinion I find very hard to understand: I consider the video to be very tasteful and portraying a woman and her femininity in a realistic setting... with the laws of nature applying... why this should be denied - I believe someone will soon elaborate on with more detail..? ;)

...and me laughing at my use of words "a more judging eye", come from a personal doubt that I might not be completely unbiased in my views..! :funny:

:rolleyes:

...reading again what I initially wrote, those are the various ideas that came to my mind, and they unfortunately came out in a terribly patchy form, as my thoughts were interrupted at least a dozen times during the process of typing...

John - :)

Butters

02-18-2005, 5:01am

FinnFreak

02-18-2005, 5:15am

She choose to wear a dress like that while riding a horse. She wanted her boobs to be bouncing out like they do. A woman does not wear a dress like that in a "realistic" setting.
...not even in Mexico..? ;)

Of course men like it ;)
...and so does my wife... :)

:huh: ...should I be worried..? :funny:

I find it tasteless. I love the rest of the video though :)
hmm... I guess we're not going to find the actual reasons why there's a difference of opinions on this matter - perhaps it just goes down to cultural divergences...

John - :)

EilleenTwain88

02-18-2005, 5:33am

She choose to wear a dress like that while riding a horse. She wanted her boobs to be bouncing out like they do. A woman does not wear a dress like that in a "realistic" setting.

If I had breasts like hers. And for the same reason, because men like it but also because I would LOVE to look good for me too. I think all women do... :D :p

Maybe the dress wasn't the best choice considering her huge American fan base, but when riding a horse you don't think things like that. She is just doing exactly the orthodox "gallop heave" (with full body) there, as I see it.

But as John said, maybe this is matter of cultural differences which aren't solved in a day. We Finns see breasts (wife's, girlfriends, other womens') several times a week (in sauna), so it is not that big deal for us. :supwink:

FinnFreak

02-18-2005, 6:05am

Maybe the dress wasn't the best choice considering her huge American fan base, but when riding a horse you don't think things like that. She is just doing exactly the orthodox "gallop heave" (with full body) there, as I see it.
:huh: - hmm... could there be something interpreted from the gallop out of the Agave..? - plenty different views, I believe... ;)

But as John said, maybe this is matter of cultural differences which aren't solved in a day. We Finns see breasts (wife's, girlfriends, other womens') several times a week (in sauna), so it is not that big deal for us. :supwink:
I've sometimes attempted to try to explain our sauna culture to those unfamiliar with it... about the purification of body & soul being more like a sacred thing for us Finns - no dirty thoughts allowed... heh, people seem pretty skeptical..! :funny:

John - :p

aFinn

02-18-2005, 7:16am

hmm... I guess we're not going to find the actual reasons why there's a difference of opinions on this matter - perhaps it just goes down to cultural divergences...I'm starting from the assumption that most men don't have a problem with a generous cleavage, so perhaps I'll be talking from women's point of view.
I think culture might have something to do with it, but not all Finnish women think like John's wife or ET88 (Hmm, there's something about that abbreviation.... reminds me of small aliens.. :uhh: ...anyways .. :p). There are those who think that if you've got it, flaunt it. Then for several different reasons others might think some scenes in Don't video are a bit too much. Perhaps a different dress while riding might have changed some views. It's like that one scene in FAFA video that many women didn't like.
Perhaps some have an upbringing they base their opinion on, or some might think women don't need to do that stuff to please men, whatever the reason, I am not surprised some don't like some scenes in Don't video.
Although dresses from that period of time were very generous on cleavage, perhaps the riding scenes and a couple of other scenes cross the limit what some think is classy. I don't think we need to find reasons for that :p

02-18-2005, 7:19am

Sorry to change the subject a little for a moment. You can get back to it again if you like.

I was thinking back on what John meant when he said

:huh: ...am I really getting away with this..?!? :biglaugh:

John - :)
First, that post #27 of yours is a fairly creative interpretation. I liked it a lot. I sensed that you could have done even more with it. Now I see that you feel the same way, based on your mention of how many times you were interrupted while typing it.

There's a lot to be seen in the video and heard in the song. It almost invites the viewer/listener to project their own feelings and thoughts into the experience. It's certainly more interesting and enjoyable than the usual black and white ink blot splashes of the Rorschach test.

No matter how creative and pleasant, or how playful and irreverent, the range of ideas is sure to be at least partly different than what other people come up with, or find acceptable.

So it now seems to me John, that you were expecting if not inviting differing views.

Second,
I watched an interview last night of 4 people among the saviest about the phenomenon of blogging. I don't know much about the subject, and hadn't considered ST mb's as blogs. But they have some of the same effect.

People contribute info and build a pooled knowledge. Any objective facts that are clearly wrong, usually get identified quickly and corrected. And people are usually flexible and adapt to such feedback. It's an ongoing process that goes forward in small, informal, easier and probably more enjoyable steps; than the formal articles, books and lectures from slower and traditional places. It's less controlled or inhibited, and therefore much faster and more democratic.

It has the potential to generate popular, emotional movements. Some are beneficial. Some can grow too powerful and get out of control.

There also can develop groups polarized at the extremes. If that happens, you can get hammered from both sides. And that discourages independent and confident creation of useful new ideas.

Not much of those drawbacks happen here. I think this is a pretty well moderated and tolerant website.

EilleenTwain88

02-18-2005, 7:54am

... or ET88 (Hmm, there's something about that abbreviation.... reminds me of small aliens.. :uhh: ...anyways .. :p).
ALIEN?!? :shocked: :shocked:
That makes me like Shania, right? Out of this world, I mean? But I'm not SMALL let me tell you... :evil: :supwink:

Ite oot eilien... mutapaini alkakoon!!! :funny: :D

The sex - and especially the amount of it - has always been the subject in Shania's career, hasn' it. To be totally honest about how I felt when I saw that part of the vid: OOOPSidaysee; she had an accident there!! I didn't think it wast planned. Maybe I'm a little naive, and I can understand the point of view that she could have changed it if she wanted to. And she didn't. And so on. :]

Sorry to change the subject a little for a moment. You can get back to it again if you like..
There's the first guy I know who changes the subject when boops are in guestion..? :shocked: :D

FinnFreak

02-18-2005, 8:25am

There are those who think that if you've got it, flaunt it.

Not at all everyone who can be described as "well endowed" act in that manner, and since what has been seen in these scenes causing minor controversy, and is so obvious, raises the question: is it intentional..? ;)

It's not like they released the video & only then realized what they've done.

I see lots of symbolism in this video, and like it has been mentioned, videos are an extension to the music, going way beyond the reach of where audio and lyrical content can go - creating all kinds of thoughts in the viewers mind...

I refuse to think that Shania Twain does videos mainly to please the male audience, rather it brings us to witness a bold statement of femininity: a woman can dress to please herself, project the person and gender within - not only to please the men... this, according to interviews, Shania doesn't do in her private time... so, that alone gives us something to think about... and in this day and time, when teenagers and even younger girls are dressing up in the ways their idols do... IMO it would be a good thing for them to wonder why... and what is classy and what is not.

John - :)

aFinn

02-18-2005, 10:32am

ALIEN?!? :shocked: :shocked:
That makes me like Shania, right? Out of this world, I mean? But I'm not SMALL let me tell you... :evil: :supwink:

Ite oot eilien... mutapaini alkakoon!!! :funny: :D

The sex - and especially the amount of it - has always been the subject in Shania's career, hasn' it. To be totally honest about how I felt when I saw that part of the vid: OOOPSidaysee; she had an accident there!! I didn't think it wast planned. Maybe I'm a little naive, and I can understand the point of view that she could have changed it if she wanted to. And she didn't. And so on. :]:funny: Sorry, I wanted to shorten your username and it came out that way, realized it after the fact :p

:funny: ...Naiset mutapainimassa... ja mikäköhän olikaan aiheena tässä ketjussa :uhh: ...kait tämä on sitten luonnollista jatkumaa :funny:

My personal reason for not liking some stuff in Don't video is that I am not interested in seeing certain aspect, yet it's presented in a way I can't ignore it. Simple as that :p

Roger

02-18-2005, 11:10am

On the topic of breasts. I think Marika put her finger on it (hmm, maybe not the best choice of words!) when she said

"Although dresses from that period of time were very generous on cleavage, perhaps the riding scenes and a couple of other scenes cross the limit what some think is classy. I don't think we need to find reasons for that "

Yes, breasts are natural and I think Finns have the right idea in not worrying about nudity. The irony is that breasts stop being interesting and arousing the moment they are fully exposed - like within seconds as far as I am concerned. But peek a boo clothing styles, like the low cut dress Shania wears in this video, draw undue attention to them. Drawing attention to our sexual parts is not classy. So the rest of the video is elegant but not the breasts pushing out of her dress and not bouncing around on horseback. As I said, I find it distracting.

Shania had a choice. She could have worn something different. We can only conclude she felt that breasts are natural and she should not have to apologize for them. She must also know they project a sexual message. So either she didn't care or she welcomes the sexual attention - good way to compete with the overly sexualized videos we see with predictable frequency these days.

ShaniaKoukla

02-18-2005, 11:16am

I think like Katie said, the video needs a man in it. It doesn't have much meaning in it. I am not denying that the setting is beautiful but it was obviously intended to have a lot of focus on her breasts and that to me is not art. I spent most of the time wondering if her boobs were going to pop out when she was on that horse rather than appreciating the video. I think that if there was some sort of storyline in this video it would have been better. Again it reminds me of those Baywatch montages :shocked:

jen

02-18-2005, 11:17am

She choose to wear a dress like that while riding a horse. She wanted her boobs to be bouncing out like they do. A woman does not wear a dress like that in a "realistic" setting.

Of course men like it ;)

I find it tasteless. I love the rest of the video though :)

Of course a women doesn't wear a dress like that when riding a horse in some cultures, but come on it is a video............like Shania said, when she does videos she is playing dress up.

In this video the dress up part is the Mexican type look in which they do wear dresses like that when riding a horse. Examples, would be the movie Zorro w/ Catherine Zeta Jones & Atonio Banderas. As well as the movie Walk in the Clouds with Keanu Reeves.............which BTW is my favorite movie:D

ShaniaFan87

02-18-2005, 12:23pm

FinnFreak

02-18-2005, 1:11pm

...got back home & watched the videos again mentioned in this thread...

sorry: classy videos in every sense - the human anotomy is something that we, as humans, must accept, respect & honour: those videos are about the deepest human emotions, which are characteristic & in the end are... which make us human beings - love - and everything else comes second.

John - :)

02-18-2005, 5:10pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
Sorry to change the subject a little for a moment. You can get back to it again if you like..

There's the first guy I know who changes the subject when boops are in guestion..? :shocked: :D
Touchee!

I noticed 'em. Believe me! But I don't dwell on them. It's a part of the video, a bit farther out of the norm than most other aspects of the video. And it has multiple possible explanations, but I can't be sure of the best or most realistic answer. So I let it go at that and move on. There's so much else to enjoy and be interested in.

It's perfectly legit. and probably natural, to expend one's energy, oiling the squeaking hinge, focusing on the little things that make us uncomfortable.

But sometimes, if I just ignore a minor annoyance, I can use my energy to do some things that are much more beneficial. Some call it "letting go." I can't do that as often as I'd like. I like to be in control of what I do, and I tend to be a perfectionist. But I suspect I'm happier when I put practical limits on my nit-picking tendency.

In this case, John is now rummaging around about the ins and outs of breasts, so to speak. That can be interesting or enjoyable for many.

But in my opinion, he had the capacity to create something far more valuable. He showed it in his initial dream-state intrepretations of the video. He has the ability to articulate some of the most wonderful ideas. He can bring up to the conscious level, many things only glimmering in the subconscious of most of our minds. He only got started on that. His job or his emails interrupted his train of thought multiple times, yet the result was still fascinating. We can all do this to some extent. But he is really good at it. If he wasn't being pulled away by this concern over a possible flaw in the video, he could have finished the next portion of his reflective interpretations. I think he has the creative spark, and the literary fluency, to match Shania's video, with an exceptionally high quality review. There may be parts of his review that resonate well with what other people think, and some parts that don't. But that's art, just like the video.

Unfortunately for art, it happens only when the muse strikes. I think John's further unchained review of the "Don't" video, has gone the way of the rest of his reports on ST fan event(s), that Marika keeps teasing him for not getting done.

Shania's4life!!

02-18-2005, 5:39pm

I think the "breast" shot has been blown out of proportion, it doesn't take anything away from the video if you are mature enough to understand that the female body is a beautiful thing! and it's not like she fell out of the dress or anything, as the behind the scene interview says, they had to strap Shania down to get that shot right! ;)

YSTO has a shot of a topless (...well pretty much naked) GUY.....IMO that is a whole lot worse! (on my eyes anyway :p)

mama twain

02-18-2005, 5:53pm

ForeverShania

02-18-2005, 6:49pm

I love the song, I can just simply say that because there is nothing not to like about it! I love the piano in the background it goes beautifully with Shania :)

Hugs
Heidi

Big Swede

02-19-2005, 3:30am

YSTO has a shot of a topless (...well pretty much naked) GUY.....IMO that is a whole lot worse! (on my eyes anyway :p)

We live in a society where it´s important to be equal and respect eachother, that´s why it´s allowed to have topless or even naked men in videos and on pictures without that anybody even mentions it, but if a woman like Shania have a very classy dress that shows a cleavage it becomes a hughe fuzz about it right the way, lol.

But for me as an European, and even more as a Scandinavian, it´s quite amusing to read this thread, so keep it going. lol.

Btw. The first time ever I saw Don´t, I noticed the cleavage, but I didn´t even reflect over that it should be even close to too much, and that´s NOT because I´m a man. :rolleyes:

It´s all done in a very classy and beautiful way, I mean videos like MIFLAW is much more provocative and dareing in my opinion...

Butters

02-19-2005, 8:27am

I think that is why I don't really care for the video as much as others do.. it's just kinda funny watching her on the horse with her boobs almost falling out.. doesn't seem like Shania.. but whatever. She is still gorgeous in the video I just don't like that part. :funny:

:funny: :funny:

She will always look gorgeous in videos ;) Even with the offensive parts :D

cheernflip05

02-20-2005, 12:55am

The dress with the corset top and the floral skirt has me searching the net for a dressmaker to try to copy it. I am going to my senior prom in May and would love to wear this dress. Nothing I could find in a store could compare. If you have any insight as to where a person could purchase such a dress PLEASE post it. I even have my computer geek brother and my boyfriend searching for it. Any Help Out There???

aFinn

02-20-2005, 8:14am

In CMT Insider from Jan 8th they interviewed a Mercury employee who oversees video productions and she said that Shania wore vintage outfits in the Don't video.

Transcript of that show from shania.com:

Announcer Intro (tease 1): See something in this Shania Twain video you've never seen before...
Label exec (RH): "I think she shocked herself."
CMT announcer -- And Later (tease 2): Is Shania just too hot to handle?
RH: "Shania would go to try something on and it would just disintegrate on her."

Coming up (tease 3): "It's almost like we revisited "The Woman In Me" but in a different location."

CMT announcer (VO): This week's Award Winning Look is to Shania Twain for her "Don't!" video.

CMT Host: If you've seen the breathtaking new Shania video "Don't!" on CMT, you probably have as many questions as we did... Where did she get those beautiful gowns? What is that gorgeous landscape? Well, we've got all the secrets behind Shania's new video.

CMT: Shania's vidoes have been turning heads since day one, and the woman who has overseen every video is Mercury Records video exec Retta Hatfield...

RH: "She nails it every single time you go out."

CMT: Shania needed to be cool under pressure for her latest shoot in Oaxaca, Mexico...

RH: "We all had to be quiet while we shot the stuff in the agave field, because this horse would react to the shouts or to the camera or to the lights... and we didn't want Shania falling off the horse and landing on one of the spikes of the agave."

CMT: Despite the tension, Shania appeared as always, calm and beautiful...

RH: "Everything that Shania's wearing in this video was vintage. Shania in the red velvet was stunning... and of course we had to strap her down so that she wouldn't pop out as she rode."

CMT: Shania got so wrapped up in the song's message that she was stunned when her emotions took over...

RH: "There's the one scene where she ends up crying, and I think she shocked herself... It was cut and she said "On my... I can't believe I'm crying" on this. She just got so drawn into the whole thing."

ShaniaKoukla

02-20-2005, 10:12am

LOL Maria I love you to death. :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny:Hehe love you 2 Katers :) I'm still standing by my notion that the video is too boobified...even my brother thinks so :shocked:

Kristian

02-20-2005, 1:34pm

Mexican women don't wear like that nowadays, they wear clothes just like any woman out there in the Western world. Of course the dress is more a Spanish style, especially from year 1800 or less, but they were used by people who lived in Latin America and they usually had a Spanish background. But the video fits in time and location for the dress :great:

I don't complain at all about the video, and I think she does look gorgeous there, and even my wife likes it, but I know we have some very conservative people here, so I respect everybody's opinion, and I will keep enjoying the video.

Paul

02-20-2005, 2:29pm

EilleenTwain88

02-21-2005, 5:17am

:funny: Sorry, I wanted to shorten your username and it came out that way, realized it after the fact :p
Okey. You're forgiven... ja mutapaini olkoon peruttu.. ;)

RH: "Everything that Shania's wearing in this video was vintage. Shania in the red velvet was stunning... and of course we had to strap her down so that she wouldn't pop out as she rode."

So they were wondering about this while shooting the video... to leave it or to cut it out, or to do something about it?!? Interesting...

Shania should have had a breast job done, so her boobs wouldn't have jumped so swell and nobody would have noticed anything. Like thinking Pamela Anderson riding a horse like that (Bay Watch WAS mentioned here, you know :D), NOTHING would have moved even if she had done it in string bikini... Would that have been better? Only kidding here (if somebody doesn't know my wierd sense of humor yet and takes offence). :uhh:

FinnFreak

02-21-2005, 6:06am

In this case, John is now rummaging around about the ins and outs of breasts, so to speak. That can be interesting or enjoyable for many.

I never mentioned any of that in my initial post, as I didn't find it the most commanding part in the video - noticed, yes, but as it's such a natural thing -I didn't feel the need to focus on that specifically... as there's so much more to be found in some of those hauntingly emotional images... but, to avoid a discussion turning into a soliloquy, I sometimes find it worthwhile to encourage people to go on a bit further to discover why they find some things a drawback... did my plan work..? - so far, I'm a bit disappointed... :smirk:

...and Bob, you are being much too kind about my interpretations on the video... but your words are appreciated, as always... :)

Unfortunately for art, it happens only when the muse strikes.

"You can bring a horse to the water, but you can't force it to drink", comes to mind... and although I really like to sometimes ponder on some ideas and do some "scribbling and scratching on the paper", it's very time-consuming for me... and unfortunately a luxury, that for now is very limited indeed... but, I'll admit - when the muse strikes, she usually takes over completely..! ;)

John - :)

Troll

02-21-2005, 11:32am

aFinn

02-21-2005, 11:41am

I think John's further unchained review of the "Don't" video, has gone the way of the rest of his reports on ST fan event(s), that Marika keeps teasing him for not getting done.I'm innocent! :angel: ... o wait, I'm not :shocked: http://www.saunalahti.fi/~oskarila/sekal/lookaround.gif

Okey. You're forgiven... ja mutapaini olkoon peruttu.. ;) Greatness! :D Would you like to suggest another shortening or nickname for me to use in future? :p The temptation to shorten your username is so overwhelming :uhh: :p
ja kaikki miehet sanoo: aawwww, hitsitvitsit :p

Only kidding here (if somebody doesn't know my wierd sense of humor yet and takes offence). :uhh: It more seems like your sense of humor fits right in with us :funny: It has been said some of us here have a weird sense of humor ... :uhh: ... :really: :p

Big Swede

02-21-2005, 12:49pm

ja kaikki miehet sanoo: aawwww, hitsitvitsit :p

Stop that!! :scowl: I´m just getting to curious about what you´re talking about :p :p

[SIZE=1] It has been said some of us here have a weird sense of humor ... :uhh: ... :really: :p

Never noticed anything like that. :really: :p

02-21-2005, 5:02pm

I never mentioned any of that in my initial post, as I didn't find it the most commanding part in the video - noticed, yes, but as it's such a natural thing -I didn't feel the need to focus on that specifically... as there's so much more to be found in some of those hauntingly emotional images... but, to avoid a discussion turning into a soliloquy, I sometimes find it worthwhile to encourage people to go on a bit further to discover why they find some things a drawback... did my plan work..? - so far, I'm a bit disappointed... :smirk:

...and Bob, you are being much too kind about my interpretations on the video... but your words are appreciated, as always... :)

"You can bring a horse to the water, but you can't force it to drink", comes to mind... and although I really like to sometimes ponder on some ideas and do some "scribbling and scratching on the paper", it's very time-consuming for me... and unfortunately a luxury, that for now is very limited indeed... but, I'll admit - when the muse strikes, she usually takes over completely..! ;)

John - :)
Yeah, I know what'cha mean. Sounds like your muse horse is starved for water because you have other responsibilities and priorities. Meanwhile my muse horse is a glutton for water. Even being retired, I rarely have enough time or energy to carry a creation on out to it's full potential or optimal destination.

Roger is the only one I know, whose ideas flow directly, clearly and succinctly off his pen with minimal effort, distraction, or wasted words.

Can you believe it? He says he'd rather call on the phone, than communicate thru the tedium of writing messages, eg email, etc.

mama twain

02-21-2005, 6:00pm

Hehe love you 2 Katers :) I'm still standing by my notion that the video is too boobified...even my brother thinks so :shocked:
:shocked: WOWSERS even John thinks it's boobified??? That is sooo funny because Danny would have the same notion. :funny: :funny: That is way too funny.

FinnFreak

02-22-2005, 4:28am

:]

VH-1 Europe have been kind enough to show the video at times when I'm usually not that busy... in the morning hours, so... this morning I noticed another detail, that put some wheels into motion...

*yawn* ...got up around 5, quick shower & out to get the morning paper... hrrrr..! - it's bloody -20 degrees out there..!!! - and the freezing wind blows away the remaining dusty sand from my eyes, delivered last night by the ever so prompt Mr. Sandman... and I rush quickly inside to the welcoming warmth, I grab a cup of coffee & head for the sofa with the paper for a quick wind-up on what's going on...

...and at that very moment: who's kind enough to enter our living room again through the glowing TV cathode ray tube..? :shocked:

( good guess..! ;) )

hmm... did I already mention how much I enjoy the video medium, with it's ability to go to places where our dreams come from..? :]

...and on this umpteenth viewing, I notice something different... clearly in sight, but gone previously unnoticed... and funny enough, reminded me of a song's lyrics I probably haven't listened to for at least a decade:

"...It was a ruby that she wore
On a chain around her neck
In the shape of a heart
In the shape of a heart
It was a time I won't forget
For the sorrow and regret
And the shape of a heart
And the shape of a heart
I guess I never knew
What she was talking about
I guess I never knew
What she was living without

People speak of love don't know what they're thinking of
Wait around for the one who fits just like a glove
Speak in terms of belief and belonging
Try to fit some name to their longing
People speak of love

There was a hole left in the wall
From some ancient fight
About the size of a fist
Or something thrown that had missed
And there were other holes as well
In the house where our nights fell
Far too many to repair
In the time that we were there

People speak of love don't know what they're thinking of
Reach out to each other though the push and shove
Speak in terms of a life and the learning
Try to think of a word for the burning

You keep it up
You try so hard
To keep a life from coming apart
And never know
What breaches and faults are concealed
In the shape of a heart

It was the ruby that she wore
On a stand beside the bed
In the hour before dawn
When I knew she was gone
And I held it in my hand
For a little while
And dropped it into the wall
Let it go, heard it fall

I guess I never knew
What she was talking about
I guess I never knew
What she was living without
People speak of love don't know what they're thinking of
Wait around for the one who fits just like a glove
Speak in terms of a life and the living
Try to find the word for forgiving

You keep it up
You try so hard
To keep a life from coming apart
And never know
The shallows and the unseen reefs
That are there from the start
In the shape of a heart..."

Jackson Browne - "In The Shape Of A Heart" (Lives In The Balance, Elektra/Asylum, 1986)

Would you believe, that I instantly got that song in my head... looking at Shania on the screen wearing a ruby on a chain around her neck..? Well, not right away from seeing it - rather suddenly coming aware of it's absence/re-appearances, and then it's gone... as Shania leaves the stone house - outside, she carries the ruby no longer... then, towards the mid of the song, the Dobro does an "oh, no..!"-type of sound to Shania's gasp: "Don't!"... and she's then seen sitting on the floor of an empty room, the camera zooming in circles, guitars moaning their shared desperation to Shania's plea: "Don't give up on me"... and, I'm not sure, it could also be a trick of light... a reflection of some sort - as the ruby appears to have lost it's original color of the deepest red, and seems just as pale as the heartbroken, devastated beauty on the floor...

I bet there's even more to be found... if we dig deep enough...

John - ;)

bambas

02-22-2005, 6:05am

VH1 Europe seem to be very kind, as I catched Don't! around 5pm too.

FinnFreak

02-22-2005, 9:45am

heh, if I have to choose from The Voice, MTV Nordic, VH-1 Europe and VIVA... it's pretty clear which one comes out as the winner... :uhh:

...the people at VH-1 Europe are pretty kind too...heh, feedback time..! :D

John - :)

Troll

02-22-2005, 11:08am

An interesting observation John

02-22-2005, 1:48pm

:]

VH-1 Europe have been kind enough to show the video at times when I'm usually not that busy... in the morning hours, so... this morning I noticed another detail, that put some wheels into motion...

...and at that very moment: who's kind enough to enter our living room again through the glowing TV cathode ray tube..? :shocked:
...,
...and on this umpteenth viewing, I notice something different... clearly in sight, but gone previously unnoticed... and funny enough, reminded me of a song's lyrics I probably haven't listened to for at least a decade:

"...It was a ruby that she wore
On a chain around her neck
In the shape of a heart
...,
...,
I guess I never knew
What she was talking about
I guess I never knew
What she was living without
People speak of love don't know what they're thinking of
Wait around for the one who fits just like a glove
Speak in terms of a life and the living
Try to find the word for forgiving

You keep it up
You try so hard
To keep a life from coming apart
And never know
The shallows and the unseen reefs
That are there from the start
In the shape of a heart..."

Jackson Browne - "In The Shape Of A Heart" (Lives In The Balance, Elektra/Asylum, 1986)

Would you believe, that I instantly got that song in my head... looking at Shania on the screen wearing a ruby on a chain around her neck..? Well, not right away from seeing it - rather suddenly coming aware of it's absence/re-appearances, and then it's gone... as Shania leaves the stone house - outside, she carries the ruby no longer... then, towards the mid of the song, the Dobro does an "oh, no..!"-type of sound to Shania's gasp: "Don't!"... and she's then seen sitting on the floor of an empty room, the camera zooming in circles, guitars moaning their shared desperation to Shania's plea: "Don't give up on me"... and, I'm not sure, it could also be a trick of light... a reflection of some sort - as the ruby appears to have lost it's original color of the deepest red, and seems just as pale as the heartbroken, devastated beauty on the floor...

I bet there's even more to be found... if we dig deep enough...

John - ;)

Oooo!! I love that reverie! You'd have made a good monk, John. Could go on retreats and meditate all the time... And the focus of your dreams would have been similar - love. Your's would include the physical kind. Unfortunately, the monks since the the onset of celibacy, include only the non-physical kind. Now all we need to do is invent that time machine, and you'll be in 7th heaven. I think that project is back there about the 12th manila folder in my "bright ideas" drawer in one of my file cabinets.

I don't remember hearing those Jackson Brown lyrics. But I wouldn't be surprised if the melody is familiar.

Roger

02-22-2005, 3:28pm

There is no doubt you have surpassed yourself in the interpretation of the Don't video, John. I really must sit down and watch it again with a more critical eye.

It is funny how one video can sometimes say so much to us. There is this one video by the Dixie Chicks (Top of the World) that had a similar effect on me. To me it is by far the most sophisticated, insightful, adult and meaningful video I have ever seen. It gets to the heart of the human condition. Yet few other people seem to appreciate it the way I do. On this board only the now banned Chloe seemed to share my enthusiasm, as I recall.

Beckie

02-22-2005, 4:11pm

I don't think all this is a problem, it becomes a problem when Shania makes a video and feels the need to "strap herself in".........it's not her fault, and there's no need for her to hide!

Shania is just being very feminine, if she had a boob job maybe its different, but she didn't! I just don't think she should have to worry, the video is really beautiful and tasteful. To be honest I didn't notice, I'm too busy being drawn to how pretty she is and how graceful. I'm sure Shania must have the most perfect facial features I've seen. It's a beautiful video, really stunning. It's my favourite video since the ones from Come On Over. (Although I love FAFA too).

Paul:)

You're spot on with your comments here Paul :D

And i have to say, at the end of the day, Shania is just a normal woman who feels good about herself when wearing certain things and she would definately not have shown so much clevage if she hadn't been comfortable with it!!! It can make you feel really confident as a woman to wear clothes like that at times..... Good on her i say!!!

FinnFreak

02-23-2005, 11:11am

Oooo!! I love that reverie! You'd have made a good monk, John. Could go on retreats and meditate all the time... And the focus of your dreams would have been similar - love. Your's would include the physical kind. Unfortunately, the monks since the the onset of celibacy, include only the non-physical kind. Now all we need to do is invent that time machine, and you'll be in 7th heaven. I think that project is back there about the 12th manila folder in my "bright ideas" drawer in one of my file cabinets.

I don't remember hearing those Jackson Brown lyrics. But I wouldn't be surprised if the melody is familiar.
:shocked: - a monk..? :funny:

ok, why not..? :p - well, my wife might think otherwise... but to be completely honest, I'm the happiest in the summer, when we rush off to our cottage on a remote island... no electricity, no running water - just the forest, the lake, the sauna ( naturally :p ) and the echoing voice of a distant bird crying over the lake... ahh... peace on earth and the beautiful nature... :]

There is no doubt you have surpassed yourself in the interpretation of the Don't video, John. I really must sit down and watch it again with a more critical eye.

It is funny how one video can sometimes say so much to us. There is this one video by the Dixie Chicks (Top of the World) that had a similar effect on me. To me it is by far the most sophisticated, insightful, adult and meaningful video I have ever seen. It gets to the heart of the human condition. Yet few other people seem to appreciate it the way I do. On this board only the now banned Chloe seemed to share my enthusiasm, as I recall.
I'm really into songs heavily charged with emotions, sadness, anxieties, etc. - something most common with 70's progressive rock - creating a catharsis, an uplifting feeling of it all... heh, I really like the feel of "Don't"... exactly my cup of tea...

I've never seen that Dixie Chicks' video, I remember sharing some musical favorites with Chloe - especially Queensrÿche - so, I somewhat get the picture...

John - ;)

02-23-2005, 11:50am

:shocked: - a monk..? :funny:

ok, why not..? :p - well, my wife might think otherwise... but to be completely honest, I'm the happiest in the summer, when we rush off to our cottage on a remote island... no electricity, no running water - just the forest, the lake, the sauna ( naturally :p ) and the echoing voice of a distant bird crying over the lake... ahh... peace on earth and the beautiful nature... :]

I'm really into songs heavily charged with emotions, sadness, anxieties, etc. - something most common with 70's progressive rock - creating a catharsis, an uplifting feeling of it all... heh, I really like the feel of "Don't"... exactly my cup of tea...

I've never seen that Dixie Chicks' video, I remember sharing some musical favorites with Chloe - especially Queensrÿche - so, I somewhat get the picture...

John - ;)
From Britannica:
"monk
man who separates himself from society and lives either alone (a hermit or anchorite) or in an organized community in order to devote himself full time to religious life. See monasticism "

Hmn..., guess I was aimed partly in the right direction there, but did not hit the center of my intended target. Of course was kidding about the relibious(what an interesting typo) part. But didn't recall the difference between a monk and a priest. I was remembering that priests were married up til several hundred years A.D. ....oooh! I still didn't say that quite right did I? I don't know of anyone who could stay married several hundred years, except maybe back in biblical times

But that's interesting that you enjoy peaceful nature and relative solitude on the one hand, but also the melancholic side of emotions and angst. You and I are similar in those two aspects. As a separate coincidence, one of my great grandmother's family name was Angst. She came from the canton of Aargau in northern Switzerland, a German speaking area. I didn't know of my family history at the time I was in Europe for a year and a half in the late '60's, or when I travelled thru Switzerland. Only later did I read that angst was considered in the literature as a characteristic of Swiss males. Perhaps the snowy mountains of Switzerland have something in common with the snowy mtns of Finland. You do have mtns in Finland?

Jamie88

02-23-2005, 12:40pm

From what I've seen of the Don't video, nearly all of the "bouncing breasts" shots are shot from far away. It's not as if the camera is giving a constant close-up of her heaving boobs.

There is one brief scene where she stops the horse and turns to the camera, and that shot is fairly close-up, and we see her boobs bounce, but this doesn't seem to be a shot just to show off her chest.

So I don't find the far-away shots of Shania's "bouncing" to be tacky. They're shot from so far away that her boobs aren't really the focus of the shots. They're noticable, but they're not focused on. If the video had many more closer shots of her jiggling breasts, then I can see the complaint. But as it is now, I think the "bouncing" shots are seen from too far away to be overly sexual.

I'm wondering though if we'll ever get a different version of this video. Nearly all of Shania's recent videos have had different versions with different edits. I wonder if there's an edit with more close-up bouncing out there somewhere?? ;)

Roger

02-23-2005, 5:57pm

Okay I think perhaps we have beaten the breast topic to death!

I watched the video again and I think overall this is a beautiful video - beautiful girl, beautiful setting (the buildings, the garden and the agave field). I think the overall sadness of the video/song did not hit me immediately and I just hit upon why - the quality of the light. I am actually sensitive to light and its effects. Maybe that is why I love the desert. I love the super bright, yellow light. It makes my spirits soar! Usually when film makers want to depict sadness they employ the pathetic fallacy to an extent: that is, they use light to emhasize the mood. So this is best achieved with grey light on an overcast or rainy day. In this video the skies are always blue. The angle of the light varies according to the scene - artificial light inside and even in the garden (flat on, not obvious) - direct sunlight outside in the agave field. The sun is high in one or two of these shots. In one I think they filtered the lens so the light was not too cheerful. More often the sun is low in the agave field. Low sun usually gives a moodier feeling. But for my taste the light is still too yellow. Even the filtered light when Shania is next to the pillar is bright. In my mind, bright, yellow light is associated with life and joy and action. So for me there is a certain disconnect between the quality of the light on the one hand, and the sad song and weeping Shania on the other. After multiple viewings I sense the sadness but it would all have been more immediate for me with less cheerful light.

On the other hand, I think the absolute aloneness of Shania in this video emphasizes the sad theme, especially when she is alone on the cold stone floor of the large empty room.

02-24-2005, 1:48am

Sacre Bleu! There you've gone and done it, Roger. Answered the question I posted rather far back, and also a question I had but did not ask because I did not know it was related.

1) What are those green plants she was riding and walking thru?
2) What did John mean by "spinose Agave?"

So that's an agave field. How could a farmer boy not know that? Well, we didn't grow agave on the edge of the north woods at 40 below in the snow.

Well, you have a great analysis about the effects of light on this video. It sounds pretty much consistent with what I know. But I didn't notice it til you raised the issue. You've done us a fine favor there, IMO.

Did I ever tell you about my hypothesis that musical elements can be correlated and formulated with elements of light and elements of words and elements of mood/emotion, etc.? Of course the most gifted songwriters already do this mostly manually at the start. But that's like the difference between writing text with a pen, and writing with a computer/word processor. You can't get very far, before the cross-out's interfere with what's left. Well, actually I and normal people can't. Your words Roger, reportedly flow flawlessly straight from your pen.

This is a project of great interest that awaits me - delving into songwriting, if I can EVER get my blasted hubris, including pc reorganizing behind me.

I found a couple items already exist about it while I was searching for other things. One was a doctoral thesis that illustrated several classical music pieces, graphically and reproducibly in color. The merging and combination of colors corresponded to music elements such as harmony, pitch, tempo and some other things, and watching the dynamic changes was fascinating. It was still only an interpretive tool, not a controllable creation tool. So it was too basic to be useful as a tool for song writing. But that part could be developed farther. And of course, it didn't even begin begun to touch yet, on the many other components that can go into a song. But a couple of those have some correlations already automated, such as rhyming text.

There's also a thick and expensive tome awaiting in my shopping cart online for some months now; about the elements of language and elements of music.

I feel like the bumper sticker I used to see at Univ of Mich years ago. They had separate grad schools there for medicine, law, engineering, business, dentistry and maybe a couple others. In the 1960's these were 95% male. Then there was the undergraduate body, which was less than half of the whole university. That was about 50-50 male and female, except for the nursing and education departments which were mostly female. Anyway, the male students outnumbered the females by 3 to 1, and most of the males were grad students. So the gals had these bumper stickers on the back of their cars, reflecting their anxiety about finding their best mate for life:

"So many men, so little time!"

I feel that way about all these fun projects awaiting me, but for which I'm running out of time.

EilleenTwain88

02-25-2005, 3:05am

"So many men, so little time!"
Exactly. I work in the IT (balance between sexes is about as hopeless as there), so maybe I'll take this to be my next motto... or better not; maybe my husband won't like it... :D :uhh:

To me the light in D! makes it even sadder; seeing the crying person in bright sunlight makes it more painful? Like when you are living a really sad period in your life, sometimes the bright sunny days feels too much and seems to be somewhat unfair? To me this video reminds me of those times of my life.. maybe too clearly and I prefer just to listen to the song. :love:

FinnFreak

02-25-2005, 3:45am

Only later did I read that angst was considered in the literature as a characteristic of Swiss males. Perhaps the snowy mountains of Switzerland have something in common with the snowy mtns of Finland. You do have mtns in Finland?
umm... no, not in the sense I think you're after... Finland was pretty much flattened by the last ice-age - and earth is still rising here where I live (about 1 cm/year) - we're mainly fields, forests and lakes... some hills here and there... I'd say that you have to go pretty high up north into Lapland above the arctic circle before finding terrain of that sort...

The melancholy that usually is related with the Finns is commonly thought to be caused by the long, cold and dark winters...

Okay I think perhaps we have beaten the breast topic to death!
...and it's not what this video's about... well, not the MAIN issue anyway...

I watched the video again and I think overall this is a beautiful video - beautiful girl, beautiful setting (the buildings, the garden and the agave field). I think the overall sadness of the video/song did not hit me immediately and I just hit upon why - the quality of the light.

...

On the other hand, I think the absolute aloneness of Shania in this video emphasizes the sad theme, especially when she is alone on the cold stone floor of the large empty room.
...my thoughts exactly...

To me the light in D! makes it even sadder; seeing the crying person in bright sunlight makes it more painful? Like when you are living a really sad period in your life, sometimes the bright sunny days feels too much and seems to be somewhat unfair? To me this video reminds me of those times of my life.. maybe too clearly and I prefer just to listen to the song. :love:
:shocked: - how about that..?!? - I was just about to mention this, and you went forward and said what was on my mind..! :funny:

Usually sadness is portrayed in videos with dark, heavy rain - the tears disappearing into the falling drops from the angry skies & it's only the facial expressions and body posture that would indicate the depth of the desperation - I'd have to agree with you: a beautiful woman in tears in a scene with a cloudless blue sky is a very powerful image... something unimaginable - and the red dress' contrast against the shapes of the green Agave, just turns the mental image volume up to the max...

John - :)

FinnFreak

02-25-2005, 7:52am

...anyone willing to tackle the symbolism of the horse..? ;)

I just realised how much Shania must have liked doing this video - having a horse in it... this coming from one interview on Finnish TV, where the Finnish director Antti Jokinen (Üp! & Ka-Ching! videos) was asked about Shania, and he referred to her as a "horse-nut" - on every break during the shooting, Shania would rush out to the parking lot to be with a pony (I believe it was) in a trailer... heh, totally understandable... and actually, quite a nice thing to mention, that a world-famous star would suddenly turn into an excited little girl about a pony... reminds me about that picture they've got in the STC with Shania next to a horse - that's perhaps the loveliest picture I've ever seen of Shania: if eyes are the mirror of the soul, she's extremely happy in that picture...

John - :)

Troll

02-25-2005, 11:06am

02-25-2005, 12:10pm

...anyone willing to tackle the symbolism of the horse..? ;)
...,
John - :)
I don't remember the symbolism about horses. What I don't know about things in general, nearly fills the universe. What I have forgotten, comes in 2nd. I remember the title of a movie called Equus. Seems like it had some rather sombre themes that I was not real thrilled about.

But horses in general are beautiful, graceful, spirited, a great partner for humans, reasonably intelligent among four legged animals, and have at least a couple unique qualities that virtually all humans aspire to.

One is that horses have a capacity beyond their needs. They can carry more weight than they'd ever need to on their own. It's somewhat similar to a situation that does not exist, but which many of us wish it did. Namely where our resources are always greater than our needs. Imagine if all humans always had more food, clothing, shelter, security, popularity, transportation, communication, health, longevity and fulfilling activities than they'd ever need.

Another quality in horses is that they expand the range of reality for humans, in more than one way. To cite but one example; without horses, we could travel only a limited number of miles in a day. With horses, that distance tripled or quadrupled. And civilization developed greatly as a result. Tho perhaps not without a parallel advance in the horrors of war.

I don't know much about horses, except they are big. We had only dairy cows. And they were just about the opposite of horses. They were so clumsy, they'd step on you even when they were trying not to. And they were so dumb, they didn't know enough not to. Even so, they were usually contented enough. And not too bad as pets. Their milk was our livelihood. And cleaning up behind them was our pennance.

A few of the cows were tame enough that we kids could ride them. But it was an odd experience. Unlike horses with a wide, conveniently curved saddle back, cows had this boney spine ridge along the center of their back that was deucedly uncomfortable. And when you wanted them to "go," there were usually only two responses. Either they'd swing their head around and look at you, with a quizzical look, wondering what kind of stupid thing you were trying to pull. Or they'd take off on the most horrid fast trot that knocked loose your dental fillings, then bounced you off, onto the hard ground.

02-25-2005, 12:20pm

There probably are things about Shania being on a horse in this video that are symbolic. But I was mostly riding along on the surface when I saw the video, not delving into symbolism yet at that time.

I wonder the extent to which she or the producers intended symbolism, compared to the symbolism that fans or consumers can or do find.

aFinn

02-27-2005, 5:45am

Or perhaps since Shania likes horses, she just wanted one in the video? :p

FinnFreak

02-27-2005, 8:39am

...umm... to me the horse in this video symbolizes love - carrying Shania through troubled times & taking her forward...

...but this is what a fan can get out of a video - not all artists play around with symbolism, clues and stuff... but some do, and it's entertaining as well... and if you can get the fans to wonder and think about things, I'd say that then the song has served it's purpose... intended or not...

John - :)

Shaniabomber99

02-27-2005, 9:33am

good point Jussie

Carley

Troll

02-27-2005, 10:34am

That is a good point John

aFinn

02-28-2005, 10:28am

Or perhaps since Shania likes horses, she just wanted one in the video? :p
...umm... to me the horse in this video symbolizes love - carrying Shania through troubled times & taking her forward...It might be just me, but I think you have a better imagination than me :uhh: :p

bambas

02-28-2005, 10:56am

Also choosing a white horse can be associated with white as symbol of hope and something clean/pure, or a new start - or just as some would say :

Hmm, that was the only one horse in the stable. Or Shania just loves too much Andalusians....

Troll

02-28-2005, 11:29am

It might be just me, but I think you have a better imagination than me :uhh: :p

I think you are right Marika

FinnFreak

03-01-2005, 7:22am

It might be just me, but I think you have a better imagination than me :uhh: :p
ahh... nooo... we're just wired differently... :p ...and I think that's the whole beauty of it: videos can be interpreted in so many ways, as many as there are viewers - there's also the director's ideas which add to the whole experience... with "Don't", we have a very clear lyrical plot, but with the images and scenes involved, we can wander off a bit...

...a bit like what Richard did over at the Boards with his thoughts on the "I Ain't No Quitter" lyrics with his post "The Quitter Code" (http://www.shania-twain.org/mb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16882).

Now that's a good read. And shows that after an artist has released a song, it doesn't end there - the fans take the song & start processing it, and it then finds a life of it's own... that's the interactivity of music. Even if the artist never meant the song lyrics in a certain way, it must be rewarding towards the artist, that people all over the world listen to the lyrics - REALLY listen to them - and with their own observations find something that only they can find... and with that special relation they've found, the songs are then stored into their hearts: forever and for always... :)

Also choosing a white horse can be associated with white as symbol of hope and something clean/pure, or a new start - or just as some would say :

Hmm, that was the only one horse in the stable. Or Shania just loves too much Andalusians....
heh, could be either way... ;)

I think you are right Marika
...don't give her any ideas... :p

John - :)

03-01-2005, 9:45am

ahh... nooo... we're just wired differently... :p ...and I think that's the whole beauty of it: videos can be interpreted in so many ways, as many as there are viewers - there's also the director's ideas which add to the whole experience... with "Don't", we have a very clear lyrical plot, but with the images and scenes involved, we can wander off a bit...

...a bit like what Richard did over at the Boards with his thoughts on the "I Ain't No Quitter" lyrics with his post "The Quitter Code" (http://www.shania-twain.org/mb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16882).

Now that's a good read. And shows that after an artist has released a song, it doesn't end there - the fans take the song & start processing it, and it then finds a life of it's own... that's the interactivity of music. Even if the artist never meant the song lyrics in a certain way, it must be rewarding towards the artist, that people all over the world listen to the lyrics - REALLY listen to them - and with their own observations find something that only they can find... and with that special relation they've found, the songs are then stored into their hearts: forever and for always... :)
...,
John - :)
I think I saw that thread about the 'code' before. But I may have been in a hurry, and kinda skimmed thru the first parts, then not seen most of the replies until now.

John, I appreciate you're associating it here for us to consider, in the mix of our current interpretations of a couple of Shania's music videos & related symbolism.

Richard's is an interesting, creative, and well worded interpretation. He has many talents and uses them for altruistic goals and motives. And his view did seem to incite kindred emotions in other fans. However the subjective projection may be limited to fans, and not felt by the mainstream who have a more neutral, objective or even realistic bent.

I think it's natural and appropriate to have creative projections. However, those projections sometimes say as much about us, as about the original creator of an artistic piece. When those projections turn negative, it's revealing. Part of fans' complaint about Nashville's treatment of Shania is based on facts, some of which I've observed myself. And part of fans' complaint about critic's view of ST fans is also based on fact, some of which I've seen myself. But projecting a view that Shania is clobbering Nashville, and ST fans are clobbering their critics, and that both Shania and her fans will have the ultimate and final laugh, hints that fans are somewhat uneasy about how they are viewed by the public at large.

I've seen statements or implications that people who don't feel the same way fans do, must not be smart enough or good enough to "get it." This suggests a bias. People can understand the views and interpretations of others, without automatically adopting them or always joining the bandwagon. There is a great joy that comes from finding shared interests and building friendships and empowerment. But there are risks of future break-ups if realism is ignored.

I know Richard fairly well and consider him a good friend. He's about 99.9% goodness and I can hardly ever remember any shortomings. He's sometimes cheerleads more energetically than I would have guessed possible. But that's okay, because some of the things he's said and done, are among the best I've ever seen, from anyone, anywhere, and it takes all kinds to make the world go round. Most of the other long time fans are also good people who do lot's of good and rarely any harm.

But sometimes I wonder about fans' defensiveness about Shania and about themselves. To what extent are fans using Shania's fame, to help their own self esteem? I see most fans deriving hope and inspiration from Shania's artistic work That seems fully natural and appropriate. Resisting criticism is also natural. Can we project our resistance too far? If it's a matter of interpreting symbolism in an artistic piece, most likely it's just carthasis or a good way to let off steam creatively. I appreciate Richard's musings and am glad he shared them. But for fans in general, I would encourage at least a bit of caution in promoting a "we vs they" view or agenda. When we depersonalize, devalue or even demonize others, we can sometimes overlook our own shortcomings, and overextend our influence to harm others.

FinnFreak

03-01-2005, 10:32am

But sometimes I wonder about fans' defensiveness about Shania and about themselves. To what extent are fans using Shania's fame, to help their own self esteem? I see most fans deriving hope and inspiration from Shania's artistic work That seems fully natural and appropriate. Resisting criticism is also natural. Can we project our resistance too far? If it's a matter of interpreting symbolism in an artistic piece, most likely it's just carthasis or a good way to let off steam creatively. I appreciate Richard's musings and am glad he shared them. But for fans in general, I would encourage at least a bit of caution in promoting a "we vs they" view or agenda. When we depersonalize, devalue or even demonize others, we can sometimes overlook our own shortcomings, and overextend our influence to harm others.

Oh, yes - I've wondered about this too, especially sending angry venomous emails to journalists who "don't seem to get it" isn't the means I myself use... if I've sometimes come across an article that I appreciate, I send a simple "Thank You, I enjoyed reading Your article"... and when complete rubbish appears... well, "silence speaks much louder than words"...

umm... this is something I've once written about this subject:

...even if Shania does not care that much for awards, and considers the crowd reaction to her music to be the greatest reward - IT IS the fans who really get upset about the lack of recognition and praise that Shania DOES deserve... it's like the whole industry is constantly reminding us fans about 'how wrong we are', 'Shania fans are brainless/tasteless morons'... or other clever remarks I've stumbled on... well, these of course shouldn't be taken personally & should run like water off the duck's back... as we know what the real score is... but it still hurts... as we find it hard and most often totally inadequate in the ways how to express our appreciation for all the happiness she brings to our lives...

Time running out again, I'm afraid... I'll think some more about this issue and return tomorrow... but for now: in my opinion, "I Ain't No Quitter", at the very end of the Greatest Hits compilation, continues to echo the same determination of not giving up as in "Don't", but in a much more self-confident manner - I don't think it's about Nashville - but it's still an interesting view from a fan's perspective...

John - :)

EilleenTwain88

03-02-2005, 2:34am

.. in my opinion, "I Ain't No Quitter", at the very end of the Greatest Hits compilation, continues to echo the same determination of not giving up as in "Don't", but in a much more self-confident manner - I don't think it's about Nashville - but it's still an interesting view from a fan's perspective...

I have the same feeling. Somehow I relate both of these songs to have something to do with the troubles with her brother!! And I may be right or wrong there, just like Richard.

But it is interesting to notice that people interpret these songs in their own way all over the world. And that is a good thing; there is no need to argue about who is right and who is wrong. We wouldn't know for sure anyway (Shania being so private person and not confirming it either way ever).

aFinn

03-05-2005, 6:59am

bambas

03-05-2005, 7:17am

Many times it's not really about Shania, I think.
The truth is, that many critics instead of saying something constructive or real, just lashing out their fustration, partly on the artists, but also on their fans.

Well, nobody likes to being called: dumb masses, morons, idiots, defts, imbeciles or whatever, just because they like a certain artist a critic does not. Not to mention the very poor, full of malice and insulting writing styles.

So as much as it seems they defending Shania, they are defending themselves also.

Of course, the answer should be well written, straight to the point - not that will change anything with this fellows.

FinnFreak

03-21-2005, 9:19am

Very true..! :)

:uhh: hmmm...

Dear Country Weekly...

John - ;)

nds76

03-21-2005, 9:27am

Don't the best yet? Hmm, I dunno about that. Maybe to us yes, but when it comes down to the charts and airplay, it's another story. If it were the best, why isn't it topping the charts?

David

EilleenTwain88

03-21-2005, 9:42am

Don't the best yet? Hmm, I dunno about that. Maybe to us yes, but when it comes down to the charts and airplay, it's another story. If it were the best, why isn't it topping the charts?

David
It hits the AC channels 28th March and the movie is yet to come... If it is a real Oscar material (like postponing it until better times suggests), it has chances.

But anyway to me the charts don't tell the whole story... just looking them there isn't many songs in the top 10 that I like anyway. Not in country nor in AC.

But it is a great songs on my goose bump scale, and only that matters to me. On the other hand; I have been her fan long before her huge selling success started and therefore I will be long after it's over. :love: :love:

FinnFreak

03-21-2005, 9:45am

Some of the best music never makes the charts... due to lots of reasons... chart performance does not IMO determine the quality of a song... popularity and commerciality yes... but in this day and age, without marketing muscle behind a single release: it will find home in peoples' hearts - but not in the charts. And it doesn't matter... Led Zeppelin's "Stairway To Heaven" was never released as a single, and it's still considered as one of the most beautiful songs ever written...

John - :)

Troll

03-21-2005, 11:02am

Roger

03-21-2005, 11:19am

I've seen statements or implications that people who don't feel the same way fans do, must not be smart enough or good enough to "get it." This suggests a bias. People can understand the views and interpretations of others, without automatically adopting them or always joining the bandwagon. There is a great joy that comes from finding shared interests and building friendships and empowerment. But there are risks of future break-ups if realism is ignored.

Hmm, I had lost interest in this thread and had stopped reading it. Bob, I really appreciate this post of yours. I have cited just this part because it touches on something basic. I know you are uncomfortable with being called a fan. Well, it is true (I think) that the word derives from the word "fanatic". And what thinking person wants to be termed fanatic? I have never minded being called a fan. In fact, I call myself a Shania fan. But that does not mean that I worship the ground Shania walks on. I love her music and her showmanship. I admire her discipline to have progressed to where she is today. That's it though. I don't feel the need to agree with all she stands for or like everything she puts out. I am no vegetarian and I don't like Quitter for example.

What I hate is the tendency of fans to form cliquish groups where belonging is dependent on sharing certain values and attitudes. Obviously we must all share some degree of enjoyment of Shania or we wouldn't be here. But, as you warn, Bob, breakups can occur if one strays too far from the accepted view of the majority. Boy! Do I ever know all about that!

So I say let's all be tolerant. If people want to interpret videos or songs in a way never intended by Shania, that's fine. Art stimulates all kinds of reactions. Shania casts her lyrics in as general a way possible to make them more universally understood and accepted. This inevitably leads to interpretations beyond what the artist intended. But let us also be tolerant of people who, in the words of the Boards people "don't get it" or don't see everthing Shania does in a positive light. Their interpretation may differ from ours but that does necessarily not make them wrong.

I guess what I find ironic is that a lot of Shania fans profess an appreciation of Shania's value system. Those values are very Canadian and, as such, involve tolerance. Canada is possibly the most diverse, multiracial, multicultural societies on earth. To have survived this long we have had to live and let live. We don't understand how other countries tear themselves apart in civil wars and other strife when we live peaceably with much greater diversity. So I view with dismay how narrowminded a lot of Shania fans have become (not really on this board). These fans profess to admire Shania's values but they have not really absorbed them.

There, my rant is over.